Author Topic: american homeing bullets  (Read 1645 times)

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2001, 09:26:00 AM »
Fariz,

HT stated long time ago that you should hear all the pings :>

though, at 700 yds.. theres so much dispersion that you have plenty of time to hear 10 hits as multiple pings.
(not to talk about chance of always hitting the engine...)

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2001, 11:26:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime:
Rosey the Riviter could make planes better than Igor, the German Slave could.


When you have an 8AM 4 hour Physics class and a 4 hour Modeling and Animation Class right afterwards. A quote like that really makes my day!!. Thanks Hangtime

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Nefarious ]
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Voss

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« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2001, 12:20:00 PM »
I have  some plans for these planes, and some cutaway views. I have cutaways for every one of the planes in this game, except the Japanese designs.

The Me-109 design has exposed water coolers in under-wing fairings (we knew that), the oil tank is in front of the cockpit in a position that would be behind the windscreen from the pilot's perspective, The radio is aft of the cockpit, about mid-way back to the tail. The pilot sit on top of the fuel tank, although he has personal seat armor of 7mm thickness, and 8mm thickness  armor sealing him off from the upper rear area with a piece attached to the canopy hatch. Behind the fuel tank is the air bottles (oxygen), so at high alt the first few shots should make him diving for air (and radio-less), the next few send him burning to earth. A canopy shot would most likely hit the oil tank, too, but also the nose guns would be effected as the magazine is in the same area. The pilot is relatively safe from a rear shot, though, and would most likely be wounded in deflection engagements (if then), but a sustained burst would get him even from the rear.

The Spitfire has nearly the same arrangement with the radio and oxygen tanks aft of the cockpit, but the fuel tanks are forward of the dash (main tank above the centerline, and the auxiliary below. The oil tank is below the engine in the chin, while the radiator is under the wing. The Spitfire should suffer from the same problems as the Mustang in ground attack.

The Focke-Wulfe 190 is heavily armored aft of the cockpit. The pilot, though, will get burned if the tank beneath his seat is punctured and lights, and another tank is under his feet. The master compass is in the rear fuselage, which I find interesting. The oil cooler and tank sits right behind the cowling fan (behind the prop), but that is protected somewhat by a 5mm thick armor nosering piece. The radio is aft of the cockpit armor which consists of 7mm personal seat armor and 14mm former/bulkhead armor. I very seriously doubt that any FW pilot was afraid to HO anything (GV's included).

The P51 Mustang plumbs the oil and radiator coolant to aft and beneath the cockpit. The radio and oxygen bottles are kept there too. Fuel is stored in tanks within the wing, and beneath the radio deck. The oil tank is forward of the cockpit, so you can see the similarities with the 109 (they even look alike in silhouette.

The P-38 is such a complicated piece of machinery that it surely would not be able to sustain much damage. The engine nacelles are stuffed with vital equipment. The armor is confined to areas aft of the tank areas in the wing and aft of the pilots' seat. The engnie coolant radiators are half-way down the booms to the tail. Between the cockpit and booms are the main and auxiliary fuel tanks. The engine nacelles are surrounded by vital plumbing to supercharger, aft radiator, oil intercooler, and fuel tanks. The radio and batteries are stored above the center sections fuel surge tank and aft of the pilot's seat armor. Like the P-51 the armor is 1/2" thick. The oxygen bottles are stored forward and to the side of the cockpit. The tail section is a shear-webbed d-tube construction with light-stringer reinforcement and five spars! The tail should take more damage and survive then we have seen.

Well, that's enough for now. It seems to me that HTC has done a very nice job to date. There are certain things that bother me, such as the way the tail on the pony tends to get knocked off so easily, but I have alway assumed it was sound related and I wasn't hearing all of the rounds striking my ride.

Go figure!

  :cool:

Offline Zigrat

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« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2001, 04:05:00 PM »
i think the damage mdoel definitely needs work

there is too much de tailing/de winging

taking off a wing should require ammo box detonation. 5 50 cal bullets should not remove a wing/tail, most would simly make holes


there should be control surface degredation rather than control surface there/now its not type stuff

only time a control surface should become totally ineffective is if the cables were cut or the hydraulics hit in the p38... or mabye if a control surface got hit with a mk108 that would do it.

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2001, 06:48:00 PM »
Ask yourself how many shots get taken on a pure 6 co-alt straight and level shot? Sweet f**k all is the answer. There is always so amount of deflection involved.

Then ask your self, where do .50's fire from? Even if a con was DEAD 6 in the X and Y (assuming Z is roll) axis the rounds come from the wings of the shooter to converge along the Z axis. Which means they do not come from a dead 6 position. IE they cross the Z axis at a point.

Then ask your self, from a front/rear profile what has the most surface area. IE look at an aircraft from the rear. The engine block does. In most cases you'll find that at low angles from the rear the highest amount of surface area visible is that fat end, the front, where the engine is.

Its simple numbers. Spray from long distance at a slight offset (left right up down whatever):
dispersion + arc + high surface area of the engine block = most likely place to get hit.

The reason .50's are more likely to pull this voodoo magic is simply because of the flatter and less dispersed trajectory they have vs cannon.

As for structural failures (wing shred, tail shred). Look at the size of those areas of stress, if the shooter gets his convergence right and several guns converge on the same structural point sh*ts gonna fly!

Yes the tiffie has the bad-radiator-mojo. But look at the size of the engine block. Its huge. Then look at the 190 engine block relative to the rest of the plane. Same thing.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2001, 07:18:00 PM »
Good point Vulcan, I'd not thought of it that way.  Eye-opening to say the least- maybe HTC DOES have it right after all.  

I still get aggravated when my engine gets popped in my 190 though hehehe.

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2001, 09:11:00 PM »
Please people its turning into a slanging match again.......

keep it civil, lets do some tests? film them then give them to pyro.
form what ive tested it wont take long to show the rate of engine out hits..
i flew 3 test flights into acks in 190 and all 3 got single engine hit/engine konks out.
tried it with the p38 and got 2 tails off(admittedly 35mm hit on tail would destroy it but even so it does seem to hit tail a LOT) and other hit took right wing off/engine out.
seems to me its obviously a problem.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2001, 11:26:00 PM »
so , let us summerize:

A shells hitting a aircraft are a problem
B bullets hitting a aircraft are a problem
C AA hitting a air craft are a problem

conclusion... i agree