Author Topic: Here's what's wrong with the arenas  (Read 2639 times)

Offline Urchin

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2006, 09:45:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The AH Main Arena has been unbalanced on a regular basis ever since I came to AH in 2001. It comes and goes, always has, and likely always will.

Just sayin.


The thing is, as time went by, the cycles intensified.  What started off as "in the hole" in 2001 (when I started as well) is a much different thing than the extended cycles the population went through in 2003 and 2004.  In 2001, a country being a bit low on numbers for a month was "in the hole".  By 2004, you had countries that were looking at being 20% of the population for 6 months at a time.  I remember the Knights were low for a long while, then it was the Rooks turn.  I haven't really paid attention for a couple years (hell, it has been a couple years since I played, really) but I imagine it just got worse.  

I think the main focus of the format change is to bring back peer pressure as a way of influencing behaviour.  In a 650 man arena, getting called out by someone for acting like a dink is meaningless, at best.  At worst, you get into a juvenile flame war on Ch1 (or 200).  

In a 150 man arena, people KNOW each other.  I always thought it was funny when people would say "Score don't matter, people KNOW who the GOOD pilots are!", because in a huge arena, that isn't true.  "People" know who some good pilots are, but mostly they just know who has the biggest mouth, and who can brag on themselves the best.  Please note that my definition of "good" means only good as far as good in fighters, I never cared much for the other play formats.

In a 150 man arena, you get wasted by someone you go "holy crap, how'd he do that!?"  You might even ask - and in a 150 man arena, he might even answer you.  In a 650 man arena, you just think "meh, he got lucky", and even if you ask, odds are good you won't get a response, because it just doesn't matter to him.  You are just another noob.  

A small arena format fosters better behaviour, in my opinion.  It will definately take some time to "breed out" the hording behaviour, and honestly I don't know if it is even possible, given the natural tendency towards the path of least resistance.  But there is definately a possiblity of that happening in the smaller arenas, and not at all in the larger ones.  For that reason alone I think the change is a good one.

Offline Kev367th

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2006, 08:16:56 AM »
If you stuck to one arena you might get to know some of them I guess, but if you switch arenas regularly its unlikely to happen.

Hoards aren't always the path of least resistance, thats just the usual flawed reason trotted out.
Somtimes it's a mission to try and take a heavily defended base, other times it's just a group of guys or a squad flying together.
If anything it's worse now than it ever was given the more severe numbers imbalance.

So sorry Urchin, a few of your observations are just plain wrong.
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Offline lazs2

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2006, 08:24:37 AM »
somebody from another game realized when he came here that if he got enough lemmings organized they could form massive squads and steamroll fields no matter how little tallent was in the lemming pool..  

They then realized that if they avoided any real competitive or stiff resitance... they could survive and get points soooooo.... the circle jerk of milkrunning undefended or lightly defended fields with overwhelming numbers started...  It works.

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Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2006, 08:34:09 AM »
Well Lazs if you'd been in LW Blue last night you'd have seen how wrong you are.

A3 was constantly under attack for hours by a large number of Rooks and defended by a much smaller number of Bishop.
Wasn't what I would consider a hoard, but a larger force that was attempting to take a field, but in your book it would go down as a hoard.
When I left we (Bish) were still clinging onto it, barely.

But I guess in your book taking a field with even numbers is totally possible, if so I'd like to see it sometime.
If the defenders have a clue what they are doing you wouldn't stand a chance in hell of coming even remotely close.
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Offline lazs2

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2006, 09:04:14 AM »
kev... what you fail to realize is that often when you see a "spirited defense" it is nothing more than furballers fighting each other.

My point is that the strat girls don't do their part.   As a furballer I often kill 3 or more attackers but the strat girls don't defend against the suicide porkers... I don't see em fly cap... if they "defend" it is simply that there is no real attack.... maybe a few low level fluffs or GV;'s that the furballers have no trouble taking care of...

Nope... never seen the strat girls "defend" worth a damn... the furballers are doing all the killing..

If the strat girls were really wanting to defend... they would fly the high cap where the furballers don't really go.  they would be ineffective of course but they could at least try if what you say is true.

It is the furballers doing all the "defense" if you mean killing the attackers.

Course.. they aren't really defending so much as just killing red planes but...

lazs
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Offline 68Ripper

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2006, 09:09:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Max
OMG!!! Perfect spelling :aok  WTG Google. :D


Incorrect Max, Line #3,  it dose not fix (improve) side imbalance. "dose" instead of does. Even with a spell checker! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Ooops did not see Slapshots reply, oh well.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 09:14:03 AM by 68Ripper »
Ironic
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Offline Kev367th

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2006, 10:06:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
kev... what you fail to realize is that often when you see a "spirited defense" it is nothing more than furballers fighting each other.

My point is that the strat girls don't do their part.   As a furballer I often kill 3 or more attackers but the strat girls don't defend against the suicide porkers... I don't see em fly cap... if they "defend" it is simply that there is no real attack.... maybe a few low level fluffs or GV;'s that the furballers have no trouble taking care of...

Nope... never seen the strat girls "defend" worth a damn... the furballers are doing all the killing..

If the strat girls were really wanting to defend... they would fly the high cap where the furballers don't really go.  they would be ineffective of course but they could at least try if what you say is true.

It is the furballers doing all the "defense" if you mean killing the attackers.

Course.. they aren't really defending so much as just killing red planes but...

lazs
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Lazs what you fail to (and continue to fail to see) is that even the EW is not some kind of private furballers only sandbox.
The guy sank the CV, so what, there's other fields unless HT has snuck in a map with only 1 field and a CV on it.

You have three totally opposite statements in that little bit of dribble above -
1) "they would fly the high cap where the furballers don't really go"
2) "never seen the strat girls "defend" worth a damn... the furballers are doing all the killing"
3) "As a furballer I often kill 3 or more attackers but the strat girls don't defend against the suicide porkers"

Kinda hard for furaballers defend a field against porkers given #1, yet claiming #3 and #2.

What you forget as usual is that the majority don't play AH2 so one-dimensionally as you do.
You'll find me (and loads of others) high and low over a field being attacked, yet I wouldn't class myself as an out and out furballer.
So no the furballers aren't doing all the killing, as much as you'd like to claim they are.

Of course sometimes the best defence is a 'quick' pork of the surrounding fields, or getting some guys together to up from another base to hit the field the attackers are coming from. Still doesn't make me an out and out furballer.
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storch

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still here?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2006, 10:14:44 AM »
kev367th,  didn't you post some goodbye cruel world post a long while back?

Offline Kev367th

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Re: still here?
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2006, 11:37:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
kev367th,  didn't you post some goodbye cruel world post a long while back?


Nope, but I did take a short break just prior to the changes, came back just after them.  


Also if taking a short break due to my Mother being rushed into hospital and spending 5 weeks in ICU is a "goodbye cruel world" post, well then I suggest you just keep that big mouth closed, less chance of putting both feet in it.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 11:44:30 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline 68ROX

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2006, 12:06:37 PM »
I think Slapshot's idea is a good one.

While I don't believe there is a perfect solution, it would keep the numbers within a range of being fair.

While ENY was intendend to be some sort of equalizer when numbers were unfairly lopsided--numbers are still numbers, and I don't know many players wearing "I LOVE ENY" t-shirts.  

It just seems that some nights in some arenas, the side you log onto needs a new chess piece---The ALAMO.  

Some have been saying "change sides"...well, I'm a Knight...my SQUAD is Knight, and loyalty means alot to us.

Until then, for my NEXT impression....Davy Crockett!

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Offline Raider179

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2006, 01:39:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

They then realized that if they avoided any real competitive or stiff resitance... they could survive and get points soooooo.... the circle jerk of milkrunning undefended or lightly defended fields with overwhelming numbers started...  It works.

lazs
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Sounds to me like a well organized offense against a poorly organized defense....Perhaps you should have organized the Defense instead of posting 17000 times....

Offline Laurie

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2006, 02:04:37 PM »
Still no reply from storch after that little stumble....;) :aok

Offline lazs2

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2006, 02:15:14 PM »
raider and kev... let's face it... the gameplay so far as strat is extremely simplistic and made so that a lone newbie has a chance of "making a difference" so that he doesn't get bored and quit... to do this he has to be able to kill some kind of strat using a mouse and half a brain.

This is anoying but fine... what is not fine is a whorde of guys who should know better organizing these lemmings.

Now... anyone who doesn't want to deal with this silliness is told to "organize" and oppose it.

the hypocracy is silly... the guys who claim to like organization and strat won't and can't defend against it so they just do the same to the other sides undefended fields.

As I have said... the strat gameplay has devolved into three whordes all racing around in a circle jerk of capturing undefended fields... Who wins has to do with who does it the fastest.   This is dependent on how many lemmings you can get to buy into it and how lopsided the numbers are..

the new arenas are a big improvement on the situation.

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Offline Waffle

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2006, 02:24:24 PM »
sometimes the best defense IS a good offense....

Offline Raider179

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Here's what's wrong with the arenas
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2006, 02:53:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
raider and kev... let's face it... the gameplay so far as strat is extremely simplistic and made so that a lone newbie has a chance of "making a difference" so that he doesn't get bored and quit... to do this he has to be able to kill some kind of strat using a mouse and half a brain.

This is anoying but fine... what is not fine is a whorde of guys who should know better organizing these lemmings.

Now... anyone who doesn't want to deal with this silliness is told to "organize" and oppose it.

the hypocracy is silly... the guys who claim to like organization and strat won't and can't defend against it so they just do the same to the other sides undefended fields.

As I have said... the strat gameplay has devolved into three whordes all racing around in a circle jerk of capturing undefended fields... Who wins has to do with who does it the fastest.   This is dependent on how many lemmings you can get to buy into it and how lopsided the numbers are..

the new arenas are a big improvement on the situation.

lazs
Public Realtions Officer for the BK's


I'm sorry but all hordes do not Always "Go after undefended bases".  Especially on these small maps where that is not even possible...

And anyway don't you have dar? If your side sees them coming and refuses to mount a defense, whose fault is that?

Again I have to say it's on you as the defender who is at fault, and not on the guys attacking.

For all the cryin you do about the horde, I have never 1 time seen anyone in the game complain. I only see it from a select few on these forums.

And as far as the new arenas, they suck and the imbalance is 50x worse than it ever was because numbers in the arena are so low.
when it was 200 vs 200 vs 150 even the country getting ganged could defend reasonably well because they had 150 guys. Now its more like 70 vs 50 vs 30 and those 30 guys stand no chance against the other 2 sides.

Have you ever been in LW?

I see the EW arena and it looks like its always next to empty. The game has taken a huge step back from MMOG when all it needed was an EW arena for you L337 fighter jocks and a few gameplay tweaks.