Author Topic: The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's (Read 2596 times)

2Slow · « **Reply #75 on:** November 07, 2006, 08:31:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hornet33
Please tell me your not saying the AK-47 is a better rifle than the M-16?

The M-16 is eazier to shoot, has longer range, is more acurate, and if properly maintained is just as reliable.

The only advantage the AK has over the M-16 is any idiot can use it. The M-16 needs a properly trained person to use and maintain it.

Personaly I'd rather have a trained person with an M-16 by my side than an idiot with an AK-47.

10-4

2Slow · « **Reply #76 on:** November 07, 2006, 08:44:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I'm educated on military history, not a soldier. Its a bad assertion to link serving in the military or owning a ak-47/m-16 to being educated on small arms combat and philosophy.

I'll tell you what I do have. I have hundreds of first hand accounts, the opinions of many combat veterans, and facts and figures to back up my claims.

Hmmm...previously you didn't have my account. You have not been a soldier, you don't own either weapon. You have not fired a shot in anger or fear.

I carried the M-16 for 20 years. No complaints here.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #77 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:12:41 AM »

The last thing I wanted to happen was this thread turn into an M16 Vrs AK argument that We've had MANY MANY times over allready. Especially when you have the ONLY one arguing here who has probably never fired either weapon and knows everything from the books he's read.

EDIT:

And I still don't think that the AK is made from lower standards. When making any weapon you have to have tolerences. Lowering the standards on those tolerences doesn't make a better weapon.

VOR · « **Reply #78 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:25:14 AM »

In the last 4 years, I've gained a great deal of respect for the AK and lost a great deal of confidence in the 16. The AK ain't a perfect gun by any means, tho.

If I could carry anything I wanted, I'd carry a Galil.

Back on topic: issue Galil rifles to new recruits in Basic and then kick them in the arse.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #79 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:29:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by VOR
In the last 4 years, I've gained a great deal of respect for the AK and lost a great deal of confidence in the 16. The AK ain't a perfect gun by any means, tho.

If I could carry anything I wanted, I'd carry a Galil.

Back on topic: issue Galil rifles to new recruits in Basic and then kick them in the arse.

What's funny is the Air Force JUST this year started issuing M16 Trainer rifles and teaching trainees how to break them down and maintain them. For the first time every single trainee will be required to break one down and put it back together before graduating. This is a GREAT first step. It just seems funny to me that Air Force BMT is getting harder while the Army's is getting easier.

VOR · « **Reply #80 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:33:14 AM »

Gunslinger, I kid you not: in Mosul in 2003, some AF guys showed up with unissued M16A1 rifles still in the plastic wrappers. I don't know if they were brand spanking new or refurbs, but the point is they got on the plane and had their boots in the sand with rifles they hadn't even unwrapped yet. They were a little nervous about it.

And yeah, it's funny how the training standards are shifting.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #81 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:42:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by VOR
Gunslinger, I kid you not: in Mosul in 2003, some AF guys showed up with unissued M16A1 rifles still in the plastic wrappers. I don't know if they were brand spanking new or refurbs, but the point is they got on the plane and had their boots in the sand with rifles they hadn't even unwrapped yet. They were a little nervous about it.

And yeah, it's funny how the training standards are shifting.

Yup I've seen that too with Security Forces augmentees. They put 100 rounds through a weapon that they don't even take with them and the USAF calls them "qualified".

At least there's a great convoy deffense course that they've been teaching the trans. people the last 2 years.

I get to go to the range on the 20th for the first time in 6 years and I'm pretty excited about it.

VOR · « **Reply #82 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:54:42 AM »

It's a good thing, but it's also an unfortunate example of applying lessons learned the hard way. At least the lessons are being learned and applied.

Mini D · « **Reply #83 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:59:12 AM »

The Air Force's boot camp has always been difficult. The TI would yell at us all the time. If we wore the wrong dress shoes, we'd get yelled at. If our brief case wasn't completely zipped closed, we'd get yelled at. If our collars weren't adequatly starched, we'd get yelled at. If we showed signs of tiring from that 1 mile march to the obstacle course, we'd get yelled at. It was horrible.

VOR · « **Reply #84 on:** November 07, 2006, 10:18:01 AM »

Gunslinger · « **Reply #85 on:** November 07, 2006, 10:18:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
The Air Force's boot camp has always been difficult. The TI would yell at us all the time. If we wore the wrong dress shoes, we'd get yelled at. If our brief case wasn't completely zipped closed, we'd get yelled at. If our collars weren't adequatly starched, we'd get yelled at. If we showed signs of tiring from that 1 mile march to the obstacle course, we'd get yelled at. It was horrible.

LMAO!

Patches1 · « **Reply #86 on:** November 07, 2006, 11:15:03 AM »

Boot Camp:

US Army '68...yelling, PT (physical training), marksmanship, teamwork and reliance upon your buddy emphasized. Length of Basic Training...8 weeks.
Only lost one Recruit during that eight weeks. Service in 'Nam...nearly guaranteed. Service rifle: M-14 (7.62 mm ).

USMC '73...yelling, hazing, PT (including SI...Special Instruction...which is more PT... ) teamwork, teamwork, teamwork...more PT...more SI...more teamwork! Hygene inspection EVERY night wasn't complete without a shot by the DI to your solarplexus! And then...Marksmanship! One shot...one kill! Emphasized! Service Rifle: M-14 (7.62 mm). We started with a Platoon of 96, or so...after three months 62 of us Graduated as U. S. Marines.

During WWII the U.S. Army's, 6th Army ( Pacific Theatre ), trained a group
of men who, during their entire operational time in the Pacific, never suffered a COMBAT fatality ( althought they spent long periods of time behind enemy lines )...but guaranteed 2% fatality in training. Why? Because ALL training was done with LIVE ammunition! Who were these Soldiers? They were the 6th Army's Alamo Scouts. Service rifle: M-1 Garand ( 30-06 ).

My point is...from yesterday to today...politics has let Mommy and Daddy influence whether their Son, or Daughter, should be subjected to Training intense enough to give their children the skills they need to survive in a Combat environment, let alone allow them to be subjected to any kind of humiliation. Remember...today's parents are not the parents who lived through the Depression...and then WWII, Korea, Viet Nam.

By the way...for the AK-47 (7.62 MM) vs M-16A2 (5.56MM) debate...I like the 7.62 MM round in .308 (M-14, AK-47, M-1 Garand)...it has "knock-down "
power! BUT! That 5.56 MM (.223 caliber) is what Militarists have known for centuries ( the smaller the diameter of the round...the more damage it can do), but weren't able to produce until recenent history... a round that instead of taking off your shoulder (as a 7.62 MM can do)...it enters your shoulder and comes out your butt (while following the least line of resistance in your body )...whilst doing a good bit of internal damage.

Boot Camp

Airscrew · « **Reply #87 on:** November 07, 2006, 12:04:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunslinger
What's funny is the Air Force JUST this year started issuing M16 Trainer rifles and teaching trainees how to break them down and maintain them. For the first time every single trainee will be required to break one down and put it back together before graduating. This is a GREAT first step. It just seems funny to me that Air Force BMT is getting harder while the Army's is getting easier.

My memory may not be the best thing but I seem to recall, Basic training AF January 1979, and we spent 1 day at the range with the M16, used adapter to fire .22, and then disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled the M16. maybe they dropped it from training in later years?

lukster · « **Reply #88 on:** November 07, 2006, 12:07:23 PM »

I went through basic in '73. We definitely spent time shooting and cleaning the M-16. They did change it later IIRC.

Mightytboy · « **Reply #89 on:** November 07, 2006, 01:39:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airscrew
My memory may not be the best thing but I seem to recall, Basic training AF January 1979, and we spent 1 day at the range with the M16, used adapter to fire .22, and then disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled the M16. maybe they dropped it from training in later years?

I was there in '82 and we only got to see the instructor hold one up. No small arms either.

Sucked!