Author Topic: <<S>> Simaril (Read 3207 times)

indy007 · « **Reply #90 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:01:31 AM »

This entire problem stems from the fact that early war maps have too much separation between bases. When you're lucky to squeeze out 300mph, it takes too long to get anywhere.

That's why CV fights have risen in popularity. There's relative parity between the fighters, and it only takes 2 minutes to be in the fight. Sinking it on a non-cap attempt crushes it. It's not always easy to relocate. Many times you can enter early war and find the closest bases have at least 25 miles between them, and the only convenient fights are when CVs show up off shore.

If a map was really built for just early war, then it wouldn't be an issue, and furballs could quickly relocate.

Unfortunately they can't, and it's way too easy for griefers to take a giant dump on the fun of a dozen others.

lazs2 · « **Reply #91 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:21:45 AM »

ok... let me explain because I don't think you really do understand... I will go where the action is... when you kill the action I will leave. I have no interest in attacking a field that has no fighters or the fighters are so capped that they can't get their wheels up.

If I am part of a "field capture" I only stay so long as it is a good fite... when it degenerates into a steamroller.. I finish the sortie and go somewhere else while they milkrun the field and "capture" it... The capture guys can circle around the now useless field and give each other orders and drop bombs on toolsheeds to their hearts content but... I have no interest in participating at that point.

And there is the rub.. the field/cv is only useful and interesting to me so long as red planes come up from it in about equal numbers... I don't get a think out of capturing it... I seriously don't even want it captured... with one exception.

If capturing a field makes it so there are now two closer fields then I am glad... but.. if another good fight is going on somewhere else... I am leaving... I won't join the whorde on their next missunzzzz.

As for what could get more people in the early war? new planes and maps with fields at 3/4 of a sector.

What could ruin the EW? organized field capture...or.... whordes... the numbers you want and need to capture are the numbers that ruin every good fight in any arena.

5 or more planes against 5 or more is the best fights for me in early war... don't need more than 10 or 20 players or so for that... what you want is 100-300 players all steamrolling... same old same old. and... not the least bit fun for me.

Close fields? you can steamroll and the rest of us can allways find a fight (away from you) at another set of close fields.

in short... we can only get along so long as the fight is a fight... when you turn it into a gangbang field capture... we lose interest.

don't you get it? when you get the advantage you want and need in a fight/field capture....

it no longer becomes a place we want to be. How are you gonna have us all get along with those two mindsets? one that wants a good fight and the other that want's to supress a good fight...

Our goal is to find a fight with a bunch of planes... yours is to kill the ability for the other side to launch planes so that you can circle around killing buildings and the odd moron who tries to take off.

just as you are disgusted that we didn't bring a bomb to what you think is a field capture.... we are disgusted that you bombed the horn of plenty that is spitting out red planes for what we thought was a good place for air combat.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

1Boner · « **Reply #92 on:** November 10, 2006, 11:16:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
ok... let me explain because I don't think you really do understand... I will go where the action is... when you kill the action I will leave. I have no interest in attacking a field that has no fighters or the fighters are so capped that they can't get their wheels up.

If I am part of a "field capture" I only stay so long as it is a good fite... when it degenerates into a steamroller.. I finish the sortie and go somewhere else while they milkrun the field and "capture" it... The capture guys can circle around the now useless field and give each other orders and drop bombs on toolsheeds to their hearts content but... I have no interest in participating at that point.

And there is the rub.. the field/cv is only useful and interesting to me so long as red planes come up from it in about equal numbers... I don't get a think out of capturing it... I seriously don't even want it captured... with one exception.

If capturing a field makes it so there are now two closer fields then I am glad... but.. if another good fight is going on somewhere else... I am leaving... I won't join the whorde on their next missunzzzz.

As for what could get more people in the early war? new planes and maps with fields at 3/4 of a sector.

What could ruin the EW? organized field capture...or.... whordes... the numbers you want and need to capture are the numbers that ruin every good fight in any arena.

5 or more planes against 5 or more is the best fights for me in early war... don't need more than 10 or 20 players or so for that... what you want is 100-300 players all steamrolling... same old same old. and... not the least bit fun for me.

Close fields? you can steamroll and the rest of us can allways find a fight (away from you) at another set of close fields.

in short... we can only get along so long as the fight is a fight... when you turn it into a gangbang field capture... we lose interest.

don't you get it? when you get the advantage you want and need in a fight/field capture....

it no longer becomes a place we want to be. How are you gonna have us all get along with those two mindsets? one that wants a good fight and the other that want's to supress a good fight...

Our goal is to find a fight with a bunch of planes... yours is to kill the ability for the other side to launch planes so that you can circle around killing buildings and the odd moron who tries to take off.

just as you are disgusted that we didn't bring a bomb to what you think is a field capture.... we are disgusted that you bombed the horn of plenty that is spitting out red planes for what we thought was a good place for air combat.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

I can,t believe i,m actually saying this but here it goes!!!!

well said lazs!!!!
the reasons you stated above were the reason i started my "why not a fighter only arena" post.
the post wasn,t meant to cause trouble, but to address the problems that both playing styles encounter. i still think it would be a good idea!!

respectfully yours,
Boner

public relations officer for Boner

lazs2 · « **Reply #93 on:** November 10, 2006, 11:32:10 AM »

and I still think it wouldn't be a good idea.

I think a lot better idea would be to (at least in early war) have closer fields in all the maps.... 3/4 sector. I also think that CV's with two or more carriers would be good as would a lot more manned ack at the fields.

I could then "participate" in the field capture untill it became a milkrun with nothing to do but cap and bomb and at that point.... move to another field where there was action... idealy... there would be 3 or more fields all having fights..

even if the generals and missunzzz guys decided to "help" at one by killing the fight.. the furballers could stay till the thing became a steamroller of the FH's or CV was killed and then leave for better fields.. the milkrunners could stay and give each other orders and kill buildings unopossed followed by troops and capture and high fives all around.

everyone would be getting what they wanted... anyone could switch from one style to another....

I do realize that my no bombs ever and furball only is not for everyone but... you have to realize that the take the field no matter how boring the gameplay results in is not the way all the field capture guys want.. they might want to jump over and furball for an evening... furballers migh want to steamroll for an evening.

In my opinion the two ridgid types can't coexist except for breif... often more than brief times... the way to make it work is to allow each to go their seperate ways when they want and.....

more important... allow a place for them to go. on the same map.

I am sure that others could explain it better.. I admit that I don't care one bit about making my side sound attractive or pandering to anyone and sensitive people simply amuse or bore me... stupid rules are made to ridicule in my opinion too.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Kev367th · « **Reply #94 on:** November 10, 2006, 12:05:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
and I still think it wouldn't be a good idea.

I think a lot better idea would be to (at least in early war) have closer fields in all the maps.... 3/4 sector. I also think that CV's with two or more carriers would be good as would a lot more manned ack at the fields.

I could then "participate" in the field capture untill it became a milkrun with nothing to do but cap and bomb and at that point.... move to another field where there was action... idealy... there would be 3 or more fields all having fights..

even if the generals and missunzzz guys decided to "help" at one by killing the fight.. the furballers could stay till the thing became a steamroller of the FH's or CV was killed and then leave for better fields.. the milkrunners could stay and give each other orders and kill buildings unopossed followed by troops and capture and high fives all around.

everyone would be getting what they wanted... anyone could switch from one style to another....

I do realize that my no bombs ever and furball only is not for everyone but... you have to realize that the take the field no matter how boring the gameplay results in is not the way all the field capture guys want.. they might want to jump over and furball for an evening... furballers migh want to steamroll for an evening.

In my opinion the two ridgid types can't coexist except for breif... often more than brief times... the way to make it work is to allow each to go their seperate ways when they want and.....

more important... allow a place for them to go. on the same map.

I am sure that others could explain it better.. I admit that I don't care one bit about making my side sound attractive or pandering to anyone and sensitive people simply amuse or bore me... stupid rules are made to ridicule in my opinion too.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Easy solution Lazs, download the terrain editor and make a map.

Overlag · « **Reply #95 on:** November 10, 2006, 12:49:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
In my opinion the two ridgid types can't coexist except for breif... often more than brief times... the way to make it work is to allow each to go their seperate ways when they want and.....

exactly.... I'm neither a furballer or a hardened toolsheder, and i see no problem with either parts of the game play.

you have to realise there's very few "rigid" furballers, and very few "rigid" toolsheders. and yes when you meet its ugly.... especially on this forum.

you keep telling us you furball only... and i will say my point again. defend against the toolsheder and the furball can last forever. helll a furball lasted 5hours in LW earlier today (A2 to A5), yet its something you claim doesnt happen in LW arena.

lazs2 · « **Reply #96 on:** November 11, 2006, 09:37:40 AM »

overlag.. wouldn't it make sense that the toolshed types would be the logical ones to "defend" against the whorde?

Why is it that they never do? I will tell you why.

It is not possible to defend against suicide porkers.. if they are willing to die over and over they can take out the FH's or CV.

The furballers can't kill em and they are way more skilled than the toolshed guys at pure plane killing I am sure you would agree...

nope.. the defense is worse than the disease of the suicide griefer... who is gonna circle high alt and try to kill the suicide porker while everyone else has fun? you? not me.

How do you kill the low level bomber type who suicides time and again at the CV when the numbers are fairly even... as a furballer I can tell you it is all I can do to kill the fighters trying for the skilless CV bomber is not possible every single time... he will get lucky on one attempt eventually..

And... if you try... the fight is dragged down low and furious.... the guy just goes to the next field and comes in high over the cv and dives into it... no defense for that.

Look at the radar... it is allways out... some guy in a late war plane hits every one he can find on the map... even it it kills him. Mostly it doesn't thos cause the ack is pretty worthless against a fast plane.

I am saying that killing FH's or CV's can't be defended against... I can't do it and you certainly can't... not if the guy is a dedicated griefer.

In short... if you try to relax and enjoy the fight... someone will kill it... the toolshedders on your side won't be any good to you because they really can't kill em... they are worse at killing red planes than the furballers.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Sweet2th · « **Reply #97 on:** November 11, 2006, 05:26:42 PM »

Quote

the suicide griefer...

So does that make you a furball griefer?

Overlag · « **Reply #98 on:** November 11, 2006, 09:23:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sweet2th
So does that make you a furball griefer?

i agree with most (maybe all) of lazs points but yes.....i agree with this point too.

Personally i never try and "suicide" a cv or whatever.... but it often ends up the case if someone is manning those 5inchers. My runs on Cv's include

1: dive on CV, and blow up before i release
2: dive on CV, release bombs, then blow up from ack and only get a few guns on the cv
3: dive on cv, release, and miss...... and ack misses too.....LOL

Sweet2th · « **Reply #99 on:** November 11, 2006, 11:58:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Overlag

1: dive on CV, and blow up before i release
2: dive on CV, release bombs, then blow up from ack and only get a few guns on the cv
3: dive on cv, release, and miss...... and ack misses too.....LOL

1.You had FUN
2.You had FUN
3.You had FUN

Overlag · « **Reply #100 on:** November 12, 2006, 08:07:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sweet2th
1.You had FUN
2.You had FUN
3.You had FUN

exactly

lazs2 · « **Reply #101 on:** November 13, 2006, 08:32:56 AM »

A furball griefer? Let's see....

What would that be? If I kill a red plane then he is dead.. he has been killed by a plane that is about equal to his and at about the same alt or... he got caught outnumbered some or... not paying attention...

In any case.. I kill one plane at a time.. I "grief" only one plane but in order to do it... I take a more or less equal chance that I will be killed.

Nothing I can do to ruin the game for dozens of players at one time... certainly not using nothing but a mouse.

If I up over and over from a CV or base I still can only kill one red plane at a time... I can only "grief" one red guy at a time and.... 99% of the time... he got the fight he was there for... he was glad I was there. He is of course more glad if he is the one who shot me down but... he either way... he got a fight out of it and it affected no one but us.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's