Stick a Fork in Me!

[Cobra]

I agree, well said Toad, although if all this whining has Pryo checking and re-checking then I hope it doesn't take away from  the pace of the development we have seen.

Azrael,
Rip posted in another thread about justifying why he Alt-F4'd last night.  I sure hope you guys don't get mad and rant over open channel or post about cowardice if someone Alt-F4's on you just because they don't agree with a tactic or plane or even a dweeb move. But hey, to each his own.

Cobra

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Maverick:

Yes close calls should screw a tank's day, but also keep in mind that the bomb HAS to be of a considerable size. If a 1k lands within 20 yards that tanks gonna be flipping like burgers at McDonalds. But Stuka's in WWII quickly found out a a T-34 needed close to a direct hit to damage it. And that was with 250 lb's I believe. If IRC the exact figure was within 4 meters to disable a T-34 or Kv-1a. Assuming german tanks were comparable that means only the 500 and 1k bombs should have the shockwave effect your talking of.

As per 20mm, well I just don't buy it. For one thing to get the penetration your discussing on the top tank armor they needed close to 0 degree deflection. From what I have read of the eastern front most planes gained results by firing from behind or taking low strafing runs to put a high amount of hits into the side plates at low deflection. IMHO 20mm is quite proper here for type 99 and ShVAK, it does damage but cannot easily kill unless you follow the proper attack methods. But IMHO Hispano on the F4u-C CAN NOT be as effective as what was on a Tiffie. The tiffie would be the ONLY plane loading AP rounds for hispano. What in the name of god would a spit or F4U driver have them in his loadout for??? For one thing 20mm was rare and hard to come by for the F4u, I think records will prove it was 99.99% HE rounds used. The Spit may have had a small amount loaded, but not often. Hell MkV shouldn't even HAVE HE hispano..  it was mostly solid rounds due to pre detonation problems on early cannons...  hmm, maybe this is why it's penetrating...  a solid round would be AP by defenition wouldn't it?

fd ski: the 190 was well armoured. Very well in fact. But only around the pilot and motor. And then only really against shell fragments and rifle caliber. I think the back plate may have been designed to deflect 20mm, but probably only a poor angle shot and even then likely only 1. I agree planes hit by 20mm should be going to heaven soon   But taking a 190 A8 with 7.65 should be almost impossible, and with only 12 or 13 mm should only be with difficulty.

[funked]

Great post Sorrow.    

However the USAAF had no difficulty taking Fw 190 with 12.7 mm.  In particular the ammo containers in the wings and the exposed fuel injection lines in the engine compartment are vulnerable.  BOOM.  

I've been reading stories of Fw 190F and G Schlachtgruppen.  They felt it was was neccesary to get the bomb in contact with the tank for a kill, so they used delayed fuses and very low level attack with the prop almost hitting the ground.  They would fly level at the tank and then release the bomb and pull up right before colliding with the tank.  If they aimed well, the bomb would either collide with the tank or slide under it.  The delay was enough for the plane to get away then BOOM the tank would become scrap metal.    

Of course such tactics are worthless here due to the incredible 75mm AAA panzer.    

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Azrael]

 

Originally posted by Cobra:
Azrael,
Rip posted in another thread about justifying why he Alt-F4'd last night.  I sure hope you guys don't get mad and rant over open channel or post about cowardice if someone Alt-F4's on you just because they don't agree with a tactic or plane or even a dweeb move. But hey, to each his own.

Cobra

I wrote I am tempted, not that I actually practice or justify it.
And enemies hitting Alt-F4 while I am in the area with a buff/tank/goon is a good idea if you ask me  

Az

[Cobra]

Azrael,
Sorry you are right, you said you are tempted when flying, of course hitting .ef in a tank is the samething.  Like I said, to each his own.  I respect the JG2 too much to even think that they would start doing or even thinking about these things.  I know it can be frustrating, but that's when I try something different to break up the routine.

To me, if a tank hits .ef then job done.

Cobra

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 05-16-2000).]

[Azrael]

 

Originally posted by Cobra:
Azrael,
Sorry you are right, you said you are tempted when flying, of course hitting .ef in a tank is the samething.  [...] To me, if a tank hits .ef then job done.

So if I'm hitting .ef in a tank when I see that the defender take a F4U instead of a tank it's a virtual Alt-F4?

Az

[Cobra]

Az,
Please keep the whole quote, including the part where I stated I really respect you guys.

I really don't want this to be antagonistic, so .ef is ok with me.  I guess it really doesn't matter.  

Cobra

[Azrael]

Cobra, we are not Borg  

I'm always speaking for myself, and since you expressed your opinion about the .ef thingie in tanks (which probably isn't a matter in next ver anymore) in a reasonable way, I just wanted to ask if that is indeed your point of view.

If yes, I'd just like to state that .ef in a tank when I see a F4U is my kind of protest.

I did care so much about getting my buff home in the beta days that any disco led to accusations of alt-F4 because I was flying cautiously. Now I'm affected by the bumpy runway bug and don't care anymore if I die, bail, ditch, get captured or land, partly because it's hard to find likewise minded buff drivers at euro times. But I divert.
Probably my problem is just that I don't like getting shot at with planes from the same 'country', i.e. by a Spit when flying a B17. But that is a MA syndrome that can't be cured on the short term, due to lack of players (at euro times esp.) and due to lack of planes.

And just in case I should ever get annoyed too much about aspects of this sim (which I doubt), I'll just go quietly, without noise. Although never been a member of the WB community I witnessed to much bad blood from goodbye messages.

Well, guess no one is reading this thread anymore, so let it die.

Az

[Swager]

COBRA!!!  You Snake!!!    

Whoops!  Was I supposed to comment on something?  Sorry!  I seen Cobra and I just had to say hello!!

------------------
Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 05-16-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

I'm just posting to make it close to 100 , this is 99!  

Cobra, first  time I've EVER alt-F4'd in 10 years of flight sims.  I won't explain it again, you read  the thread.

[Badger]

I have nothing intelligent to add to this thread, but I just wanted to beat SAW here and be post #100.  

[Cobra]

Az,
Actually, I think we are of the same mind on this issue.  At first I felt that .ef in a tank was the same as a virtual alt-F4, but I can see your viewpoint about being attacked by 'same' country planes, and I can also see your point about the F4U protest, although I will admit to using one to attack armored columns as it is an effective column killer.  I tank alot also, and the only thing I really fear is another tank or a -1C, and I fear the -1C much more than another tank.  

I wish there was a way we could do some of these HA things at a more Euro-Friendly time.

LOL...I think you and I are the only ones reading this thread anymore.

I was never a member of the WB community either, but I agree with you on the goodbye messages.

Salute
Cobra

[Ripsnort]

Post # 8 or 9 from Bloom25: "I don't want to start a 100 post thread about whether or not the guns are overdone..."

Ha!   102 now, and counting!

[Azrael]

 

Originally posted by Cobra:
LOL...I think you and I are the only ones reading this thread anymore.

Well, some guys (avoiding to look at saw and rip) seem to think that UBB forums are another way of padding the score or so, but I have the feeling that they are in fact reading the numbers instead of the posts.

Then there are the guys that like to peek others that voice there problems here, be it the right or the wrong way. To each it's own. I won't go into namecalling or such things, I'm sure you're nice guys @home but you prefer to behave otherwise in the unpersonal area of the internet, your choice. Obviously some guys never had the opportunity to see how customer service works - and that is not directed against HTC which obviously have an excellent customer service because you don't hear anything about it - and like to alienate others and kick them when they're on the ground just for the fun of it   If that sounds too harsh, that's just my impression I got of some threads here.

<S> to Boston, Cobra. If we have the chance to do a tank-only battle in the SEA at euro-friendly times, I'm looking forward to fight with or against you  

Az

[Sn1p3r]

Just read through this whole thing and got to Ripsnorts post about my kill.

The actuality is that I started firing on him at 850 on my FE .. it was way more than 1 shot, in fact, I was suprised when he didn't complain about "spray and pray" .. because that is what I was doing (after chasing him for 3-5 mins) ...

The buffer msg about "one shot, one kill" was a humorous intent either after Rip complained about one ping or Cobra mentioning that my nick is Sn1p3r .. I don't recall. "one shot, one kill" is a favorite term used by snipers in the armed forces.

Fact of the matter was that I was on a very wide slow closing lead turn and opened up (sprayed) when he was 850 on my FE.  I saw no fewer than 4 flashes as I continued to close on him and then his tail came off.  I remember Rip telling me he caught it on film and that I was D1.2

For what it's worth ... send in the film Rip.  I only regret that I wasn't filming it also.