Taxes

[Gunslinger]

Oh and RPM you are somewhat correct but there was no income taxes 100 years ago.

The first federal income tax was imposed by Congress in 1862, to finance the Union's waging of the Civil War. It levied a 3% tax on incomes above $600, rising to 5% for incomes above $10,000. Rates were raised in 1864. The Civil War income tax was repealed in 1872, but a new income tax was enacted as part of the 1894 Tariff Act (see Tariff Act, Ch. 349, 28 Stat. 509 (Aug. 15, 1894)). However, the Supreme Court struck down the income tax in 1895. It ruled that the portion of the income tax that applied to income on property was a direct tax that, under the United States Constitution, could not be levied without apportioning the tax by population.

It wasn't until the ratification of the 16th amendment that made it possible to tax citizen's income in 1913

2006 - 100 years = 1906 = no income taxes

Yes the spanish american war was expensive:

The general excise tax (telephone tax) has so far cost consumers about $300 billion, says the Congressional Research Service. The entire Spanish-American War cost only about $6 billion, adjusted for inflation

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
It wasn't until the ratification of the 16th amendment that made it possible to tax citizen's income in 1913

Wrong.  It wasn't until the 16th amendment that the government could spend on the states how it saw fit.

The 16th amendment had nothing to do with the taxes, but the spending of taxes.

Until the 16th amendment, if the government gave money to any state, they would have to give money to every other state as well, in proportion to their population and the amount originally given.




Still doesn't mean that taxes aren't theft.

[Gunslinger]

I'm just going off of Wikipedia here:

In 1913, however, the states ratified the Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which made possible modern income taxes. That same year, the first Form 1040 appeared after Congress levied a 1% tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 with a 6% surtax on incomes of more than $500,000. By 1918, the top rate of the income tax was increased to 77% (on income over $1,000,000) to finance World War I. In 1922 the top marginal tax rate was reduced to 58% and then to 25% in 1925 and eventually to 24% in 1929. In 1932 the top marginal tax rate was increased to 63% during the Great Depression and steadily increased to 94% marginal tax rates on all income over $200,000 in 1945. Top marginal tax rates stayed near or above 90% until 1964 when the top marginal tax rate was lowered to 70%. The top marginal tax rate was lowered to 50% in 1982 and eventually to 28% in 1988. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments.

At first the income tax was incrementally expanded by the Congress of the United States, and then inflation automatically raised most persons into tax brackets formerly reserved for the wealthy until income tax brackets were adjusted for inflation. Income tax now applies to almost ¨ø of the population [2]. The lowest earning workers ($20,000 in 2000) pay no income taxes as a group and actually get a small subsidy from the federal government because of child credits and the Earned Income Tax Credit.

[lasersailor184]

You reference wikipedia, but don't even bother to read what the constitution says?

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Art 1, Sect 2, Par 3.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

Art 1, Sect 8, Par 1.

AMENDMENT XVI

Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913.

Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[Gunslinger]

sure, but that doesnt say there was or was not a federal income tax prior to the ratification.

[lasersailor184]

There was an federal income tax before ratification.  It was enacted by Lincoln.  


But for the most part the federal government never had an income tax.  That's because they weren't the bellybutton munching power hungry socialists that ALL POLITICIANS ARE TODAY.

Don't misinterpret that as them not having the power to tax income.

[DYNAMITE]

Wouldn't "past military" be considered social spending. That's VA benefits, retirements, ect.?

Not quite... while they are benefits payed out during civilian life... they come from a different pot of money than other social benefits (i.e., Medicare, Medicaid, TANF etc).

Basically what I'm saying is that VA benefits are not included in the 642 Billion on social spending that I noted in an earlier post... rather they come out of the approximately 34 Billion spent on the Department of Veteran's Affairs (Which is technically separate from Defense spending as well).

See the link in my earlier post for details...


But like i said before... it costs a lot of money to provide the services needed to keep America going... that's why we have taxes.  We don't have to like them... but unless you would like to see our social fabric fall apart at the seems, then we need to pay them.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
There was an federal income tax before ratification.  It was enacted by Lincoln.  


But for the most part the federal government never had an income tax.  That's because they weren't the bellybutton munching power hungry socialists that ALL POLITICIANS ARE TODAY.

Don't misinterpret that as them not having the power to tax income.

Just goin by what wiki says that the tax from the civil war was repealed in 1872....came back as a "tarrif tax" in 1874 and then struck down as unconstitutional by the SC in 1875

[LePaul]

If only we could get those illegals to pay taxes.  The Dems have it almost right, they've given them driver's licenses and help them vote.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Our military is not the same composition as it was 100 years ago.  I'll stop right there, as you obviously get confused very easily.



"Current military” includes Dept. of Defense ($449 billion), the military portion from other departments ($114 billion), and an unbudgetted estimate of supplemental appropriations ($100 billion). “Past military” represents veterans’ benefits plus 80% of the interest on the debt.*

Military spending= 30% + 19%= 49%

LMAO... THIs is where that chart came from? http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

This give a more accurate picture--notice that debt service comes in a close #3 to defense and, the big winner,  the welfare state
http://www.federalbudget.com/

THIS gives a view of discretionary spending (that is somewhats less than 50% of our entire budget outlays for any year--the welfare state eats the larger amount, and it can't be negotiated)
http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=107

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Just goin by what wiki says that the tax from the civil war was repealed in 1872....came back as a "tarrif tax" in 1874 and then struck down as unconstitutional by the SC in 1875

Guns!  You're not even reading what the wiki says!

The reason why the tax was repealed from the civil war was because they didn't need it anymore!  Back then they didn't have a enormous welfare state to support.  They only had to pay for the war.  Once it was payed off, it was repealed.


The reason the second one was struck down because it was unconstitutional.  Not because it was a direct tax, but because it was being distributed disproportionally.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Guns!  You're not even reading what the wiki says!

The reason why the tax was repealed from the civil war was because they didn't need it anymore!  Back then they didn't have a enormous welfare state to support.  They only had to pay for the war.  Once it was payed off, it was repealed.


The reason the second one was struck down because it was unconstitutional.  Not because it was a direct tax, but because it was being distributed disproportionally.

The whole point of this conversation is to determine if there was in fact a federal income tax in 1906.  According to Wiki their was not.  I'm not arguing the whys and hows I'm asking the ifs.

[bj229r]

I believe it was started in WWI, and was sposed to be temporary

[RedDg]

It's always supposed to be "temporary"

[lasersailor184]

Don't fool yourselves.  Real taxes started with the birth of socialist nations.  It was never even meant to be temporary.