Author Topic: Unperk the XIV? (Read 3773 times)

Kev367th · « **on:** November 13, 2006, 01:27:59 PM »

Just checked back through some of the previous tours stats.

Spit XIV is consitently the lowest K/D ratio of any of the perked planes.

It averages around 1.1/1.2, while all the other perk planes manage 2.1/2.2+.

Since the Ta-152 (similar K/D as the XIV) has been unperked, maybe it's time to try the XIV unperked for a tour or two.

Yup it's great high alt, which would be fine if thats where the overwhelming majority of AH fights occured at.

JimBeam · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2006, 01:39:46 PM »

would be nice for killing those 20K plus pony drivers:cool:

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2006, 01:52:22 PM »

wow, the ta152 is unperked?

Something I wish I would see more is high altitude fights.

croduh · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:02:40 PM »

I got about 20 kills/3 sorties i think in spit14 today.I was fighting on deck vs usual ma rides.It's very fast for a spit, turns good, guns are great...
Only problem is people don't fly it much.Why - i don't know?

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:11:51 PM »

The thing about the 152 is that it sucks. Anywhere. All the time. Even free, few people fly it.

The thing about the Spit14 is that it's the FASTEST spit in the arena, faster than 90% of the other planes in the arena, as well, it climbs better than a 109K-4, almost, and it has easy-mode Hispanos and 50cals. It turns almost as tight as all the other spits.

Put that together, and if it were unperked it would be the most widely flown spit EVER in AH history.

See, the 152 was unperked because it blows. It's by no means uber. The spit14 is perked BECAUSE it is uber. I've had sorties where I was in a spit14, lost an elevator, and STILL out turned 2 LA7s and a p51 that were gang banging me on the deck. I ended up with 4 kills after I lost an elevator, and still made it home safely to land. No other plane would have let me do that.

Kev367th · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:13:43 PM »

Why?

Easy to answer -

Up high there are only a few (all free apart from the F4U4 but that has a 2.2+ K/D) that can give it a run for its money.

Down low in the AH2 gangbang it's nothing special, just a faster Spit.

Disagree Krusty -
All the other Spits out-turn it easily, even going with the Griffon torque. Go against it the rest of the Spits have no problem out turning it.

Yup it has Hispanos, but lets be honest how many kills are from the 50's only. Very very few I would guess.

Faster than 90% of the planeset, well that means there is 10% faster than the XIV, not all perked. Then again it depends where your flying it, high or low.
Thats like saying the D9 is the fastest 190 therefore it should be perked, or are you suggesting the fastest model of all plane types should be perked?

Last tour it finished with a K/D ratio almost equal to the 152, (1.2), inferior to the K4 (1.5), was in 19th place, and by far and away the lowest of all the remaining perked rides, which were all at the top, with a 2.2+ K/D.

Most widely flown - That would be interesting, still think a lot (esp the noobs would take the XVI, after all XVI is higher than XIV so it must be better,lol).
XVI and VIII are still better suited to the MA low alt gangbang.

Bronk · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:24:48 PM »

Also like to add it is only in that % till boost runs out . Then it not much faster than any other spit.
Yup has to be perked cuz of the 5 min boost.

Bronk

Edit: how about a spit worth perking like say a Mk XII. (had to sneak that in here)

Kev367th · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:30:11 PM »

Max speed in the typical low alt MA -

331 without WEP
361 with WEP

Hardly stellar is it.

P-51, Tiff, D9, K4, La7, Ta-152, La5, Yak 9U just a few that are faster.

Like I said IF the fights were hi-alt, yup, no problems, but they aren't.

Bronk - Even the XII is only on par with the 190-A5 ( http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XII.html ), the ONLY perk-worthy Spit would be the F.21

zorstorer · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:44:13 PM »

But kev you are missing the point....no uber spits

Krusty · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:00:45 PM »

Kev, the spit14 does abot 358(W)/332(NW) at sea level. So it's got 5 minutes of WEP? So what? So do all but the LW planes in this game. Heck the P47N has 3 minutes, and the Ki84 has about 2 minutes. 5 is the norm. Yes it has wep for only 5 minutes, but so do almost all the other planes it'll fight.

The only planes faster than it on the deck are: Temp, Typh, P51B/D (by 5mph and 10mph), La7 (spit14 is faster than la5 even), F4U-4, 190D and 109K-4.That's 8 planes (not counting jets) out of about 80+ choices. Very small selection is faster than it.

You don't see that many tempests. Typhies are easy to kill in anything as long as they don't run away. P51s can give it a fight but spit14's better in the vertical and in turns and in snapshots. LA7 can he tough if the pilot is good, but a good LA7 pilot? Come ON! That happens once in a blue moon. F4U-4 is a monster turner now, always was BS in the zoom, but the spit14 is at least its equal in climb, vertical zoom, and both are close in turning. 190D: See typhie comments. 109K-4: All they do now is rope and HO. Sometimes they cherry pick. It's rare to see anybody actually dogfight with this plane anymore. The 30mm gun means the spit14 has a BIG advantage in avoiding getting hit, and has a BIG advantage of landing a critical blow on the 109 on the first ping.

So frankly, you can't claim it's a weaker performer. Even HTC said in a comment once something like "Spit14 is perked because of its zoom climb" [from a post on forums many years ago]. When I fly it the only thing I fear is my own stupidity. I fear no la7, no p51, no tempest. Nothing. Nada. And if I don't toally screw up and show them my arse saying "Come and get it!" then I'll make it home alive after the sortie, every time.

Kweassa · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:21:45 PM »

We've got a plane doing 378mph at deck, 10minutes of WEP duration, 3x20mms... for free..

A plane that does 380mph at deck, quad Hizookas, for free...

A plane that does 375mph at deck... for free,,

A plane doing 365mph at deck, with 10 minutes of WEP, and initial 4,500fpm+ climbrate and a 30mm cannon.. for free.

..and a chuckload of contemporary superplanes, for free.

There's no reason the Spit14 should be unperked, or rather, no reason why other superplanes shouldn't be perked. In terms of balance, as long as planes like the P-51D, Bf109K-4, La-7, Fw190D-9, Typh.. etc. remain free, there's no justifying the perks on the Spit14 and the F4U-4.

The Ta-152H is finally free. One down, two more to go for UTSTAFF

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:23:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

I've had sorties where I was in a spit14, lost an elevator, and STILL out turned 2 LA7s and a p51 that were gang banging me on the deck. I ended up with 4 kills after I lost an elevator, and still made it home safely to land. No other plane would have let me do that.

The only reason you were able to do that was 1) you had friends helping out or 2) you encountered below average players.

ack-ack

Krusty · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:27:23 PM »

I was alone. Friends were on the way, but still too far out, so I turned and fought. They weren't below average. They were average or above. The spit14 just let me roll onto them, jink back, pull a reversal or two, and in less than 2 minutes I'd shot down 3 late-war planes.

*I* thought I'd be dead instantly. Apparently so did they. I honestly don't think any other plane would have got me out of that mess.

[EDIT]

I admit it's anecdotal evidence. I admit that it might have been a fluke. It still remains that it was an astounding thing to do for me, and the spit14 let me do it. I know I'm not going to convince anybody with this story, but it was a good example to use.

Kev367th · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:41:24 PM »

Without WEP the La5 is marginally faster than the XIV, with WEP it's reversed.

Turn radius - All the Spits handily outurn the XIV -
XIV - with flaps 509 without 629

Rest are below these (VIII/XVI) - with flaps 450 without 568

So the reason it's perked is its zoom climb?
How many others fall into the good zoom climb category?

Looking at the K-4 in particular -
Pretty well matched climb wise.
K4 faster
XIV better turner
Acceleration pretty even low alt up to 300mph
K4 better acceleration low alt over 300mph

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2006, 04:27:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

[EDIT]
I admit it's anecdotal evidence. I admit that it might have been a fluke. It still remains that it was an astounding thing to do for me, and the spit14 let me do it. I know I'm not going to convince anybody with this story, but it was a good example to use.

Not that I'm trying to belittle what you did, it's a testiment to your abilities that you were able to win under such circumstance. However, the engagement you described was indicative of the skill of the pilot and not the plane superiority.

For example, the other night I was bounced by four F4Us and despite losing my right aileron, right flap and elevator I was able to still down all four Corsairs. Does this mean the P-38J is uber? No, it just goes to show the old adege, it's 90% pilot ability and 10% plane.

ack-ack