CH Product review (with pics, long read)

[Nomak]

Some weeks ago I switched to a full CH set up.  Now that I have had some time to adjust to it I thought I would convey my feelings on the set up and my feelings on all my previous sticks to anyone who is interested.

Although I by no means claim to be a Joystick guru, I have been through quite a few over the years.....

Microsoft Sidewinder2  (2 of these)


Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback2 (at least 6 of these, I have 3 together, working ones right now)


Saitek Cyborg EVO Force


Saitek Cyborg EVO


Sorry no real pics of the cyborgs, they are long gone.

Saitek X45 (Only for a few days, I hated the rudder rocker switch and returned it)

Saitek X52


Of all these sticks I feel strongly that the microsoft force feedback2 is the best.  The precision and accuracy it offers is superb.  The "Force's" it offers were far better than other FFB sticks I had used/tried.  It's durability was good although not excellent.

A quick thought on FFB.....  Having gone through getting accustomed to FFB and then having to learn to fly without it..... I don't recommend it.  For example when MS stopped making sticks I thought I would just go to the Cyborg EVO Force and it would be the same.  Its not.  In my experence each manufactures FFB is very different.  So why take the chance?  Just learn on and get accustomed to non FFB sticks and you won't limit your choices down the road.  The next thing you know you will be like me and have a six pack of ebay joysticks around that dont really work.......

As stated previously both of the MS sticks are top notch in my opinion and I would still be using them if they were still on the store shelf's.

I really liked my Cyborg EVO and EVO Force.  They both looked great (Espically at night time, they both kinda glowed with red and blue lights respectivly).  They both were adjustable for hand size as well as left and right handed players.   I didn't like the twisty rudder action on either of them.  Comming from the MS sticks I felt the Saitek twist was just way to stiff.  I could have adjusted to the twist over time,  however the cyborg series had 1 issue that made me decide to move on to another stick.  The hat switch.  I couldnt get used to the feel of it.  It was sticky and would almost "Bind" on me..... and I had to warrenty 3 sticks in around 4 months due to hat switch failures.

The X45 was the worst of all my sticks.  I absoultly could not stand the rudder "Rocker" switch.  I only had it for a day or 2 before I returned it.  I dont mean to totally slam the x45 here.  It just wasnt for me.

I really thought the X52 was going to be the answer for me.  It was cheap (for hotas standards anyway).  It was very good looking and it was a twisty stick.  I used this stick in Falcon4 Allied Force for quite a few months.  I had no problems with it for Falcon.  I was'nt  flying AH at the time.  I really thought I had the stick that I would stay with.

I get back into AH.......

OMG was the X52 bad in AH in my opinion.  It was choppy..... it was notchy..... the rudder twist was to stiff (Again) I was literally flying at 50% of my ability with this stick.  The throttle sweep is WAY to long to be quick enough in AH for a good rolling scissor.   Yeah....... Nonsense.........

Enter the CH FighterStick.


What an amazing stick.  I cannot express to any of you how much better of a stick this is than any of the Saitek stuff (That I have tried anyway).  The feel is even better than the Microsoft stuff.  I was able to adjust to the Fighterstick in about a week.  I don't think I could have ever gotten used to the x52 to be totally honest.  The entire set up (Throttle and stick) are loaded with levers/buttons.  So many that it can get confusing actually.  I use manual trim and always have.  The  throttle has 3..... yes 3,  four way hat switches I could use to set up for trim...... Actually, to take it a step further..... The throttle has so many buttons and levers that If I put my mind to it I could probably map all the functions I need for AH on the throttle alone.

Some people complain of a "Notchy" feeling in the stick when going from  elevator to aleron.  In my opinion it is a non issue.  This unit is as smooth as butter.

The throttle has a straight foreward and back motion.  Unlike the Saitek HOTAS that has a "Sweeping" motion.  In theroy the sweeping motion of the saitek is cool....... IRL it just takes to long IMO to go from WOT to closed throttle to WOT again.  The CH no nonsense throttle action is fun, fast and practical.  I could'nt ask for better.

I only have a couple of things that I see as issues with the Stick/ Throttle set up.  Although they are not really issues for me at this time.

If you have small hands this stick may very well be a problem for you.  The hat switch is in the upper right hand side of the stick and it is a bit of a reach for me.  I have fairly large hands and can palm "most" basketballs.  (I say this only to offer some perspective) At first I thought the reach was to far...... I am used to it now and its not a problem for me.

The stick has alot of hat type switches and not enough buttons.  Pretty self-explainatory really.  I like a hat switch and then the rest to be buttons.  The CH just isn't set up that way.  Again, I am used to it now.



The hardest part for me has been the change from twisty stick to rudder pedals.  At first it seemed near impossible.  A week or 2 later it was good as long as I was'nt in a rush and I had time to think "push on rt foot for rt rudder".  Now (6 or 8 weeks in) It is actually starting to become instinct.  Although I still have problems with gunnery and especially snapshots.  I am hoping they will come with time.  I would say today I an flying at 85-90% of my personal ability.  I could'nt ask for better givin the time frame.

One thing of note that I have discoverd from going to pedals....... and maybe others can confirm this also..... I was using way to much rudder with a twisty stick.  Also with the twisty stick I would use all of the rudder at once where as with the pedals at least half of the time I am using partial rudder instead of just "Snapping" it over.  I think ultimately the change to pedals will improve my ability not hinder it.



In summary......

The CH set up is worth all the hype.  IMO it will be the last stick that you buy.  I highly recommend it.  It really is worth the money.

I know the pics are far from great but I thought they would help none the less.  I am sorry for any/all bad spelling.  I am aware that I can't spell.

I hope you enjoyed my write up.

Dave

[Nomak]

I intended to post this in help and training.  I did post it there once I realized what I did.  But it wont let me delete it here.  

Skuzzy can you delete for me?

thx.... Dave

[hitech]

Nomak: Fix for your short thumb. I use your exact setup.

Map the views to the lower left hat button. Is in a much better place to reach.


HiTech

[moneyguy]

i just got a CH fighterstick last week to replace my X52. i fixed the short thumb thing with some strips of cardboard and some duct tape to raise my hand position about 3/4 of an inch. its much better now. ill put up some pics soon.

[stantond]

Yep.  I know.  Bad pots and all, it's still the best available so far.  

I had a spiking problem with my MSSWFF2 stick that went away when switching to the CH USB Fighterstick.  I just use the CH stick and rudder pedal system.  This setup is far superior to any I have used in the past.  


Regards,

Malta

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by Nomak

The hardest part for me has been the change from twisty stick to rudder pedals.  At first it seemed near impossible.  A week or 2 later it was good as long as I was'nt in a rush and I had time to think "push on rt foot for rt rudder".  Now (6 or 8 weeks in) It is actually starting to become instinct.  Although I still have problems with gunnery and especially snapshots.  I am hoping they will come with time.  I would say today I an flying at 85-90% of my personal ability.  I could'nt ask for better givin the time frame.

One thing of note that I have discoverd from going to pedals....... and maybe others can confirm this also..... I was using way to much rudder with a twisty stick.  Also with the twisty stick I would use all of the rudder at once where as with the pedals at least half of the time I am using partial rudder instead of just "Snapping" it over.  I think ultimately the change to pedals will improve my ability not hinder it.
 

I am about 4 weeks into my CH pedals as well (i use a X45 stick/throttle to go with that).

I fully agree. On the rocker rudder of the X45, the very small range of motion made the effect you describe even worse. Despite my best attempts at "being light" and scaling, it seemed as if i only had three rudder positions: non, half and full.

Now, after i have relearned to take off again, i feel my rudder inputs already a lot smoother and finer in control. That doesnt exclude the now patented take-a-step-to the-left spin in a heated fight... but they are getting fewer and farther in between so im pretty confident ill get back to old ways and largely beyond in the not too far future.

Pedals are 150% worth getting if you plan on playing fligth sims in the long run.

[VooWho]

I got the Microsoft Sidewinder 2 and I have droped it 8 times and still works like it was new. Nice set ups by the way.

[TequilaChaser]

Good Write-up review  , Nomak  

[Balsy]

Originally posted by hitech
Nomak: Fix for your short thumb. I use your exact setup.

Map the views to the lower left hat button. Is in a much better place to reach.


HiTech

Or better yet Get Track IR, and never thumb a hat switch again for a view.

Nomak.. your starting over anyhow... grab the TIR 4 with vector.

I  use my hatswitches for auto level, zooming in and out, trim, engine start, gear up/down, flaps

everything BUT my views.

Highly recommend the combo of CH gear and TIR.

Balsy

[HomeBoy]

Excellent write-up and description of your trek Dave.  I'm sure many people will benefit from your experience.

As for the FF issue.  I was never interested in it at all.  However, one of the guys, Sparx, at the CH-Hangar forum convinced me I should try the FrankenForce mod he had come up with.  Basically, the FrankenForce is an old GamePort CH ForceFX (the first and only I think FF stick CH ever made) gutted of its electronics and replaced with a CH FighterStick USB together with a Logitech Wingman Force (to provide the force feedback circuitry).  [Please, don't react on this word "Logitech."  I had a very negative reaction too but trust me, it's the mechanics (pots) of those things that are crap.  The circuit board is fine.]  Let me tell you.  It is fantastic!  I have been using mine for about five months now and have not needed to calibrate it yet!  It is rock solid and the force feedback is sweet in AH.

Since I am a lefty and build lefty handles for people who want them, I put a set of my handles on mine.  Here is a photo:


The white cable you see connecting between my stick and throttle is to transfer the electronics from the Logitech board installed in my stick so I can have the two analog wheels (one at the pinky position, the other in the base) so I can use rotory analog trim on my throttle.  I also implemented a dual stage trigger so I can fire my primary weapon with a slight pull on the trigger and both weapons if I pull all the way back on the trigger.


I definitely recommend this mod to anyone so inclined.  I am thrilled with mine.

[Auger]

I have used CH gear for about 10 years now.  When I came back to AH it was the only setup I considered.  But I agree with Nomak about the FighterStick's 8-way.  That sucker is just too far up there to be useful in a heated fight.  Fortunately, the 8-way on the ProThrottle works great for views.  Right under my thumb with no reaching or stretching.  The 8-way on the stick does odd tasks, like switching fuel tanks, dropping the tail hook, gear, and other things not often done in a fight.

[HomeBoy]

Just as Balsy says though....
If you get Track IR, POV hats are moot!   Plus, your SA goes up considerably!

[moneyguy]

ummm...what is trackIR?  

[HomeBoy]

Check this out:  TIR Website

[Clutz]

Originally posted by Auger
I have used CH gear for about 10 years now.  When I came back to AH it was the only setup I considered.  But I agree with Nomak about the FighterStick's 8-way.  That sucker is just too far up there to be useful in a heated fight.  Fortunately, the 8-way on the ProThrottle works great for views.  Right under my thumb with no reaching or stretching.  The 8-way on the stick does odd tasks, like switching fuel tanks, dropping the tail hook, gear, and other things not often done in a fight.

Auger, the 8-way view key on the throttle works great, but it sure seems stressful on my thumb. Has this happened to you, or anybody else???? It started off as a blister, then turned into a callus. This doesn't bother me, but it seems now that after only 4 or 5 months using it, the joint in my thumb is starting to become stressed. It's trying to grab the oblique views that is so hard to do without having to apply a lot of force. It is somewhat better now that the switch is broken in some, but it took using up the joint in my thumb to get it that way.

I have been wanting to ask you guys about this for a while now. I guess I am wondering if this is the typical case with the CH throttle, then what throttle would be more user friendly.TY Clutz.


Oh yes, great write up Nomak, for putting in the time and effort.