Author Topic: You're Not Telling Us What We Want to Hear  (Read 2556 times)

Offline Nilsen

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You're Not Telling Us What We Want to Hear
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2006, 08:27:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
nelson.. Are you saying there was no mess with the sadman?   Is your memory so short?  

He was a rein of terror for his own people... genocide.... attacking his neighbors (kuwait)  and he had been doing his best to get nukes...  He would have gotten em too I bet without intervention...

He had the fourth largest army in the world and showed that he was not afraid to use it to take away his neighbors countries.

What do you think the sadman would have done if left alone or to the care of say... norway?  or the UN?    

I believe that probly 10,000 of the worlds most hardcore muslim extremeist terrorists have been killed in iraq...  I believe that even if iraq is split into chunks it will be better for the world.  

Someone had to do something sometime soon in the region... you were unwilling and... unable to.   Thank you for your concern but....

lazs


No need to take focus away from the issue. lazs  Everyone on the planet except a few sunnies agrees tha Saddam was a tryrant that need to go.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2006, 08:39:32 AM »
soooo.... what did everyone on the planet do about it?

Maybe if all you guys had gotten behind the effort it would have been over in a year or so and the terrorists would see that the world was united against their crap...

Nope... you had to piss and moan and do your petty little UN against the US crap.   drag your feet and make it as hard as you could on the one country (or so) that was doing the heavy lifting... you are still doing it..

The terrorists see the world turning against the US and no real critisism of them.. they are encouraged if not downright laughing.

Well... at least you will get an aljazira station in a language you can understand now.  

Don't worry about it tho.... maybe they will let you convert.

Who knows what would have happened if the "world" hadn't folded like a cheap card table under a fat lady because they were afraid their muslims (that are not even assimilated into society) would riot or throw bombs.

I am pretty much disgusted with the "world" and it's way of dealing with a very real problem.

you have no solution but you take every opportunity to criticize the US?

your opinion is irrelevant.

lazs

Offline deSelys

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You're Not Telling Us What We Want to Hear
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2006, 08:48:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
...

your opinion is irrelevant.

lazs


So why are you arguing? I think that Nielsen's opinion on this topic is much more based upon facts and education than yours, which is essentially the offspring of fear, emotion and propaganda.

I hear what you say about hotrods and guns. That about sums it.
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2006, 08:50:01 AM »
You speak like a politician Lazs..  Every reply is a question and you seldom or never contribute anything youself. You try desperatly to insult people rather than contribute only to fail at that too. :p

Why anyone should really bother repeating themselves to you is beyond me, but ive done it so many times myself so i guess you are good bate :D

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2006, 08:58:28 AM »
so, what is you guys solution... we did something... you did nothing.

Do you believe that the way you are acting is helping or hurting the terrorists?  

Do you not believe that a world united against such behavior is better and would have had better results?

You still can help but you won't.   You say something has to be done and then.... you do nothing but rag on the guys who do the job.

If the terrorists threaten you somewhere you fold and appease.

I don't like the war.  That is not the issue.  I believe it had to happen eventually.  I believe that you have no solution other than folding.

Even if you all came to a decision and a solution with your pathetic UN... it would damn sure include us doing the heavy lifting.

I have refrained all this time from saying this but I am about sick of your pathetic whining and obstructing and excuses.

lazs

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2006, 09:05:43 AM »
lol.... im not sure about who is whining and complaining the most lazs.

Either way, I wont loose my temper, call people names or insinuate that they are pathetic even if i may feel that way.

Learn some self control lazs and more people may open their eyes to some of the good points you have at times.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2006, 09:12:09 AM »
I don't care if you listen to me or not.  I pretty much block out the rhetoric from those with no solution anyway.

You never do say what you would do....

You criticize but you have no solution... that is what I base you being irrelevant on not....something personal.

So lay it out for us... what is norways solution to the whole mess?

lazs

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2006, 09:24:01 AM »
It has been answerd in a ton of other threads but ok.

Dont go in the first place and more and more folks are beginning to realise that... finally.

As to the threat of Saddam (pre Gulf war2): Let the oppressed Iraqi people deal with it when their cup is full. It would be bloody but so is the current situation and when the current situation is over and the Iraqi people takes over then it will be as bloody as if they did it in the first place.

Change has to come from within.


That should be clear enough.

Offline Horn

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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2006, 01:07:02 PM »
This seemed like a good answer (from the Denver Post this morning):

"In June, Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed by coalition forces in a raid which looked suspiciously as if it had been set up by his own uneasy allies among the Sunni and former Baathist extremists.

Last month, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered coalition forces to take down checkpoints they set up in Tharwa (formerly Sadr City) and criticized coalition attempts to arrest a *****e militia leader. (The *****e are the majority religious sect, persecuted under Saddam Hussein.)

The first event tells me the minority Sunnis (who used to be on top in Saddam's government) were finally fed up with the presence of foreign fighters who wanted to set up an Iranian-style theocracy.

The Sunnis cleared the decks to face the *****e directly - either by a deal or, if the *****e chose, by violence. The *****e responded with militia attacks.

The second event tells me that the Iraqi government is asserting the sovereignty that we officially gave them in June 2004. Whether the decision to take down the checkpoints was wise, al-Maliki wants it known that he is in charge.

Together, the two events tell me that it's time to step to one side and let both sides slug it out.

While I was on active duty in Iraq on the coalition forces staff, I wrote a paper in support of an idea that many others in and out of the military had floated: Pull coalition forces out of the cities and put them on bases in the desert. My reasoning was:

1. The Iraqis largely don't care about the desert;

2. We would be paying them rent for the desert (as we do in other places around the world where we have bases on foreign soil);

3. It would effectively protect Iraq's western and southwestern borders;

4. We would be largely out of sight to most of the population;

5. There would be few surprise attacks on us in the desert since we would see people coming for miles; and

6. That area of the world would get the message: The U.S. is not going away.

So why stay at all? Because complete abandonment would not only lead to implosion but - even worse - the destruction of Iraq as its neighbors tear it apart.


I know Iraqis. They are a brave and proud people. Of all fates, surely they do not deserve this.

Of course, if we step "outside the ring" by moving out of the populated areas and into the desert, one of two things could happen: Both sides could realize we are no longer there to offer whatever restraint we could, and the prospect of fighting to the death may sober them up, make them sit down and talk it out. Or they may choose to fight to the death.

A bloody solution? Unless we are willing to fill the country with thousands more of our troops and impose a "king's peace," yes. Unless we are prepared to maintain a Roman-style occupation, yes."

This is the right idea, I think.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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You're Not Telling Us What We Want to Hear
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2006, 01:58:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so ripley... You are saying that muslim fundamentalist extremeists were not a problem for the world until we made it so?

That maybe we should solve the problem like your country and just sit on our butts waiting for the UN or to just get over run?

I would rather get these guys all in one spot and show em they will get beat.  you would rather pray they don't come and get you for a while yet.

good job.

lazs


No Lazs I'm saying that Saddam kept Iraq in an iron stronghold that kept its problems domestic. Now Iraq has plenty of terrorist groups rampant and each day the fights continue they breed new trainees for Al-Qaeda. Guess who they'll be targeting? First your troops in Iraq. When they take the bus home, the terrorist will take the next on the same line.

The only way you could 'fix' the now global problem of nobody controlling Iraq is implement another Saddam to replace Saddam or well.. nuke the place from orbit.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2006, 02:14:29 PM »
interesting... so him attacking kuwait was a local problem?   I say that paying attention to him (defeating him) slowed the possibility of another nut bag in the region having nukes.

If iraq goes back to being a divided country that is better for the world.

If I really felt that leaving extremist muslims alone would work as an overall solution to the problem then I would agree with you but....  In order for me to feel that way I would have to see mass muslim demonstrations against the extremist muslim violence...  I know that muslims know how to demonstrate...

Nope... I think that nothing had changed in centuries of muslims meeting other religions.   We are gonna have to face the unbending extremists at some point.

I symphathize with you guys solution... what was it again?  oh yeah... do nothing?   or wait... maybe you agree with sanctions?  so long as it doesn't anger any of your muslims maybe?

lazs

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2006, 02:28:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]

The only way you could 'fix' the now global problem of nobody controlling Iraq is implement another Saddam to replace Saddam or well.. nuke the place from orbit.


There is another option, but according to the presidential mouthpiece, Tony Snow, it's a non-starter.
sand

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2006, 02:39:27 PM »
I think you are right sandman... any idea that involves states rights and a less powerfull central government is abhorent to U.S. politicans...

Wouldn't want to set a bad example for our states eh?

I mean... you show that states with divergent needs and beliefs (sorta like our red/blue states) can't be realisticaly expected to have the same controls over every aspect of their lives and where will it all end?

lazs

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2006, 03:05:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
interesting... so him attacking kuwait was a local problem?   I say that paying attention to him (defeating him) slowed the possibility of another nut bag in the region having nukes.

If iraq goes back to being a divided country that is better for the world.

If I really felt that leaving extremist muslims alone would work as an overall solution to the problem then I would agree with you but....  In order for me to feel that way I would have to see mass muslim demonstrations against the extremist muslim violence...  I know that muslims know how to demonstrate...

Nope... I think that nothing had changed in centuries of muslims meeting other religions.   We are gonna have to face the unbending extremists at some point.

I symphathize with you guys solution... what was it again?  oh yeah... do nothing?   or wait... maybe you agree with sanctions?  so long as it doesn't anger any of your muslims maybe?

lazs


So you're still sticking to the BS you were fed about Iraq being a threat to your country? ROFL! Absolutely no evidence was found to back that up after the attack. It was just a huge mistake.

Iraq was toothless after Gulf1 which was the time when their WMD was destroyed by Bush senior. Sure, Saddam was a bad guy. But now instead of Saddam you have Osama and his buddies ruling the ground there. Fair tradeoff? :rofl

Just face it, Gulf2 was a mistake of gigantic proportions and Bush Jr. will be remembered through history for this mistake.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Viking

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« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2006, 04:23:07 AM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
I symphathize with you guys solution... what was it again?  oh yeah... do nothing?   or wait... maybe you agree with sanctions?  so long as it doesn't anger any of your muslims maybe?

lazs


Why do you think American soldiers should die for the Iraqis? Why should you pay for their freedom both in lives and tax dollars? Of all the people on this bbs I would think you would be the most against this war. But just like with your job your stance on the war seems a bit hypocritical.