PC or Mac ?

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by -dead-
Whereas Microsoft's internet explorer is...? Safari has it's oddnesses but compared to internet exploder -- the bane of anyone seeking web standards compliance -- it's a paragon of virtue.

OK, lets give you an example. Safare uses a 1 packet TCP window, this mean its breaks easily when their are Layer7 devices upstream of it such as L7 firewalls, or Proxy servers doing content filtering.

Even M$ can ship a product that conforms to basic TCP standards, Apple can't.

[deSelys]

My 0.02$ about iBooks (Mac laptops):

nice looks BUT horrid design (inside) and manufacturing: it will take you 1.5 hours to get to the HDD (no kidding!). And you'd better take a lot of pics while disassembling the thing cause there are at least 10 different types of screws and the shielding is held in place with tape (again, no kidding). You'll also notice that some components have been bent/damaged during the original assembly.

Do the math, you'll need between 2 and 3.5 hours to change the HDD. And the risk to break something isn't small. And I defy you to do this without scratching the case...

check it out...

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Airscrew
xrtoronto,  you might go check out price comparsion on Mac parts vs PC parts that you might want to upgrade in the future.  Memory, vid cards, monitors, drives (HD and DVD)
Mac memory
1Gb DDR SDRAM for iMac G5   1Gb-3200-IG5  $ 169.00  
2GB DDR2 PC2 PC4200/533   $ 415.00

PC memory
Kingston KVR400/1GR DDR Memory Upgrade For Desktop Computers 1.0GB 400MHZ/PC3200  about $106 at newegg

Corsair Micro 2GB Pair PC4200 DDR2 533 MHz  $212 to $301 depending where you shop

Kingston Valueram Memory - DIMM2GB Kit 533MHz DDR2 PC2-4200 DIMM runs about $250
 
that above is just one reason I probably never own a mac

You can use PC memory on macs. I do. Kingston make cheapo Mac spec RAM, or you can use Corsair if you know what specs you need (easy enough to find out).

My current lumbering old G4 PPC mac has 1.5GB of PC RAM bought cheap, a cheap PC Radeon card that I flashed the ROM to make it the mac version, and an Asus DVD writer [actually an Pioneer DVR-105] (ROM flashed to an Apple Super Drive [ie Pioneer DVR-105]). And Maxtor Hard Drives. No Apple bits at all in fact.

[It still starts up faster than my much younger and faster PC, too.]

This is all on a pre-intel mac. Since the switch it just got even easier. You don't need to buy expensive Apple parts: it's a myth. One that Apple have no reason to dispel.

www.xlr8yourmac.com has all the details required, full of people who run all manner of non-standard bits in macs and how they did it.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by deSelys
My 0.02$ about iBooks (Mac laptops):

nice looks BUT horrid design (inside) and manufacturing: it will take you 1.5 hours to get to the HDD (no kidding!). And you'd better take a lot of pics while disassembling the thing cause there are at least 10 different types of screws and the shielding is held in place with tape (again, no kidding). You'll also notice that some components have been bent/damaged during the original assembly.

Do the math, you'll need between 2 and 3.5 hours to change the HDD. And the risk to break something isn't small. And I defy you to do this without scratching the case...

check it out...

I call bollocks on this (and see above to understand how antiMac I am). Where I worked has an apple service centre, I see ibooks getting serviced all the time and its nothing like that.

[-dead-]

Originally posted by deSelys
My 0.02$ about iBooks (Mac laptops):

nice looks BUT horrid design (inside) and manufacturing: it will take you 1.5 hours to get to the HDD (no kidding!). And you'd better take a lot of pics while disassembling the thing cause there are at least 10 different types of screws and the shielding is held in place with tape (again, no kidding). You'll also notice that some components have been bent/damaged during the original assembly.

Do the math, you'll need between 2 and 3.5 hours to change the HDD. And the risk to break something isn't small. And I defy you to do this without scratching the case...

check it out...

ibooks were an absolute nightmare! Not anymore though... the current Macbook series makes it a lot easier. Mind they couldn't possibly have made it more difficult than the ibook series.

[deSelys]

Originally posted by Vulcan
I call bollocks on this (and see above to understand how antiMac I am). Where I worked has an apple service centre, I see ibooks getting serviced all the time and its nothing like that.

I hope for you that you're not betting your own 'bollocs' because you are going to sing at least two tones higher : I did MYSELF a HDD swap on a pearl white iBOOK G4 2 weeks ago and it was a nightmare. Fortunately I had this write-up to help me through.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by deSelys
I hope for you that you're not betting your own 'bollocs' because you are going to sing at least two tones higher : I did MYSELF a HDD swap on a pearl white iBOOK G4 2 weeks ago and it was a nightmare. Fortunately I had this write-up to help me through.

I'll be asking the certified apple tech tommorrow morning

But as I've said, I've seen him working ibooks, never seen him take more than a few minutes to get the drive out.

[deSelys]

-dead- has already given the explanation: the iBooks (previous generation) were as I described while the new MacBooks are easier to service. So we're both correct (or wrong).

But out of curiosity I'd like you to post here the expletives that the apple tech will use when you'll mention the iBooks

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Vulcan
OK, lets give you an example. Safare uses a 1 packet TCP window, this mean its breaks easily when their are Layer7 devices upstream of it such as L7 firewalls, or Proxy servers doing content filtering.

Even M$ can ship a product that conforms to basic TCP standards, Apple can't.

Well I dunno about the under the hood stuff -- seems to work OK for me on the internet though. The only network problems I've experienced on the internet are paranoia-related IP blocking by US sites, easily fixed by using public proxies. Perhaps you can shake off my paranoid sense of being baffled with BS by giving me a concrete example of an URL that Safari can't get to but other browsers can?

As to the M$ TCP standards - possibly so, but I do notice on my own humble little TCP/IP network (1 router + 1 switch, 2 macs 2 PCs, 1 printer) that it's always the PCs that get network problems and exhibit weirdness requiring restarts. The Macs just work.

And whilst I dunno much about TCP, I know when I do a web page, I code it so it works in all the other browsers and validates OK on the W3C first, then add all the hacks and javascript necessary to make it work the same for ie.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
They have opened up a Mac superstore here and I have been in twice this past week. I am very tempted to buy a new Mac. (see link)

iMac 24"

With the upgrades I want it comes to $2619. plus tax.

Is there any caveat I should know about? Do you think it's smarter to stick with MS? What about software? How much s/w is available for Mac these days? I'm thinking of using my PC for online stuff and the Mac for multimedia stuff.

Any thoughts?

Ill just skip all the replies you have gotten and answer from my experience as a mac user, so bare with me if i say things that have been said.

If I were in your shoes then i would go for a mac. You get alot of good software with your mac and you wont have to worry about viruses, slowing down over time and re-installing every year. You can install windows on it too   and get just as good performance as on a winbox with simmilar innards. Buying a mac gives you the freedom to choose between OSX and windows.

My next PC will not be a mac, but that is only because I already have a good one. If i had none and was in the market for a new one then I would go for a macbook pro.

If you have any questions please use the PM.

Have a nice day Raymond.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Everybody loves Raymond..

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
We work daily with different print companys, if your work is mainly
for profesional printing stuff, stick with a Mac.
We run both at work, Mac & PC, both run the same software like
Photoshop and Indesign, but if it comes to real Color-Management,
or Color-Calibration, Mac still beats the PC in Lightyears.

If you need the Puter just for Web Graphics and surfing or
Games, go with a PC.

Just my 2cent

Gh0stFT

Now that they basically use the same hardware, is the only difference software?

[LePaul]

Originally posted by Debonair
lol, i just saw that rofl

What's so funny about my city?  Or has MP4 hit?

[Hap]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
Do you think it's smarter to stick with MS?

[/B]

Not in a million years.  All the Windows frustrations are gone.  There's simply no upkeep by comparision and tweaking.  I've had my iMac for 2 months and that's how it has been.

What about software? How much s/w is available for Mac these days? I'm thinking of using my PC for online stuff and the Mac for multimedia stuff.

[/B]

You can use all your PC software via Boot Camp which installed easily and works very well.  Ask your question to the folks at the Mac Owners Support Group (Google it).  They have 1st hand knowledge.  I'm a dweeb computer user.  So far OSX (Mac Tiger operating system) just plain works.  Every time.  Safari, their web browser, works great.  Email, Garage Band (you can compose music), the iCal calendar works.  From what little I've read, and it is very little, Mac rocks when it comes to multimedia stuff.  Especially making movies, hi end photo editing, and movies.  Now, I do none of those things and never will.  So ask those who know and dont' have their egos and opinions joined at the hip.

I bought the Mac software package with mine and Apple Care warranty.  iTunes works great.  I've also found the men and women on the Mac Owners Support Group to be a neat bunch of people.  They answer questions in a friendly manner.  None of the blustering and belligerence you see in here.  Granted, the forums are very different to begin with.

They have a Newbie section where I've posted many questions, and I read it frequently and learn how to do things.  The learning curve is not steep.  If, Toronto, you're comptuer saavy already, it'll be a breeze.

There is a way to save money on your purchase.  Run it by the MOSG (Mac Owners Support Group).  They get a real bargin on memory which is quite pricey via the Apple Store online.  There maybe other ways they can help you save dollars with no sacrifice of quality.

I also found the telephone Mac support -- I called them twice -- on issues like "how to" stuff that any semi-intelligent person should be able to figure out which I couldn't -- and the support was great.  Quick, easy, pleasant.

Mac has about a 5% market share in computers world wide.  Not too different from BMW and or Mercedes.  I think the comparision is very apt for all the purposes I use a computer.  

One last pitch for the Mac Owners Support Group.  Register, its super easy and not invasive.  Tell 'em what your contemplating.  Lay out all the pros and cons you're heard and read.  Everything they said and what I've read, has turned out to be true without hyperbole.  Any.

Regards,

hap

[xrtoronto]

Well...lot's of really great responses here. I have read all of them and want to thank everyone who contributed. I am still totally undecided as to what path I will choose at this moment. (but that's ok, because I don't intend to make a move at the earliest until after Christmas Day, possibly during Boxing Week when a sale might occur)