Place yer Votes: Remove the F4U-1c ??

[Heater]

 

Originally posted by Hristo:

Keep it, kill it, strafe the chutes of cannon-Hoggers    

Man Hristo Hammer is going to be real pissed off at you now.  

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!!! Heater !!!
 
Shit Happens All The Time

"If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."

[This message has been edited by Heater (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Daff]

I dont care either way.. (Dont really fly enough for it to matter what I get killed by <G> ), but one would have thought that they would have learned from their mistake of introducing the F4U-4C in WB (Or was it B?...anyways..the one with the 4 cannons  ).
Exactly the same whines, gripes, defenses, etc...wonder if we'll see the same result?

Daff

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CO, 56th Fighter Group

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:
Stay away from the business end of those guns.  In AH, all the cannons are bad news--
 

With all due respect, Ammo, one cannot avoid  the business end when having a good  dogfight with another plane, inevitably, a high F4U always comes in and ruins it.

Also, tell me how to stay away from the business end when flying a slow bomber.  
<S>

[pzvg]

Dunno squat about HS ballistics, but I do know armor quite well IMHO, all cannon birds have something not quite right in respect to damage, cannon at 1.0 = dead panzer IV, 1000lb at 10 feet = maybe tracked?
FYI a 1000lb bomb landing 10 feet from any tank ever built = upside down tank, believe it, I've seen it on the range a thousand times. In air to air I think the cannon hog has an advantage only because it has 4 cannon,face it a snapshot that connects from any pure cannon bird is death, even most spit pilots don't bother with the .303's until they run outta cannon. Range icons? yep bad, they not only supply range but indicate relative speed, trash 'em and you'll see a helluva lot of BnZ planes doing overshoots on the target, 'course those that learn to adjust are gonna become the proper WHAAAM! "where the hell did he come from?" types

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[sourkraut]

keep it, otherwise i won't die enough.

Sour

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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen

"Hey - someone has to be the target...."

[Minotaur]

For all of you who really hate stats:

• F4U-1C --> 5838 kills / 3036 deaths
• F4U-1D --> 225  kills / 417  deaths

You could most likely conclude, because the only differnence is the armament, that armament is the reason.  Logically, this is why one plane successful, and the lack of success in the other.  (Shocked?  )

Conclusion about the F4U-1C vs the F4U-1D:

• It is not the F/M or the plane as it is modeled (Unless the yellow nose art has some mystery effect  )
  
• It is flown tremendously more often by players
• It is tremendously more successful

The reasons that the guns are more effective:

• Very high lethality
• Very good long range effectiveness

BUT.....  For any gun system to be lethal, it must get hits on target.  This totally relies on players providing the neccessary accuracy to get hits.

---------------------------------

I see the WISDOM in Hangtimes proposal of removing ranging ICONS.  His proposal will only effect the accuracy of the player shooting, not the mismodeling of guns for play balance.

Addtionally, the lethality of the gun does matter, but it is getting hits that matters more.  To get hits, the shooting must be accurate.  Range ICONS greatly increase player accuracy, perhaps artificially to much so.

---------------------------------

F4U-1D Conclusion:
This is the plane that might actually need to be removed from the MA.  Interest in flying it is very low as is its success.

Further Conclusion:
Check the stats.  After the F4U-1C, it is cannon equiped LW planes that have the highest success in the MA.  

Therefore; if you keep removing or wanting to remove the "BBB" (Biggest Baddest Bird) then you will end up flying the F4U-1D and nothing else!  


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
With all due respect, Ammo, one cannot avoid  the business end when having a good  dogfight with another plane, inevitably, a high F4U always comes in and ruins it.

Also, tell me how to stay away from the business end when flying a slow bomber.  
<S>

Rip-  the respect goes to you

My philosiphy is this--It matters not which AC it is with few exceptions--as long as they guy that happens along when you are in a heated dogfight is higher than you.  If the guy is in the C-hawg, Spit,109, P51-- he is gonna ruin your day. The  Hawg HAS TO BE HIGHER THAN YOU TO BE EFFECTIVE. A low  energy low alt Corsair is not the threat a Spit is. I get more worried when I see a high spit or NIK than I do a HAWG. All they have to do is point the nose in the direction they want the AC to go and it goes (it is less forgiving to fly). Exception--and all it means is he needs more time with his guns to hurt you--AC like the 202 W/O cannons.
The Cannons are strong, i agree to that. i think the spits are pretty deadly too! Too strong? I am not sure its the cannons or the damage model. I do think the Panzer damage model needs some tweeks for sure.

And RIP--I know how frustrating it is to have a great long enduring dogfight only to have either one of his countrymen or your come and take part--yup gotta hate it--but this is the way of the arena  As far as the bombers--hmmmm--- dont fly targets  

[SnakeEyes]

Saintaw... more power to ya if you fly with that armament.  I'm used to the 4x20mm whiners in WB.  Still, I suspect that 1 Ping noise does not always mean that you've been hit by only 1 Ping.

For the record, I played the Beta but decided against staying.  Just didn't find AH gripping enough to stay... tho' I keep in tune to see where it's headed.  If they ever model the F8F, P51H, or Ta152, then I might reconsider.    Of course, if that happens Hristo is gonna get his shorts in a knot.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[daddog]

Keep it! I think it would be foolish to remove it, or any plane for that matter.

and install a...

Rolling Plane Set.

Yes we need a few more planes before HTC can run a reasonable RPS, but that will solve much of the problem. Or should I say complaints.

or better yet!

Historical Arena!  
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daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels
Snapshots
 
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes.
That way, if  he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.
 

[Lephturn]

Back up there a ways, Verm said it best.

Keep it.

I'm a hard-core F4U-1D pilot.  (One of very few from the looks of it.)  Yep, I've been carved by 1C's sometimes, but those have always been good pilots.  Hell, Torque would have killed me if he was flying a kite I'm sure.  

Wait until I get my hands on a P47N!  8 fifties.... I can hear the whining already.


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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/


"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[Karnak]

Keep it.

But give us RAF types the Spitfire XIV
Give the LW types the Fw190D-9
Give the Russian types the YAK-9U
Give the Japanese types the J7W1 Shinden or the A7M3 Reppu.
Give the Italian types whatever aircraft they ask for.

Sisu

[funked]

Karnak, the USN equivalent to the late-war-wonders you mention is the F4U-4.  Be careful what you ask for.    

Personally, I have little trouble evading the clumsy Hog drivers.  Then (if I'm flying a Typhoon or Mustang) I run them down and execute them.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-15-2000).]

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
 Ummm sorry Crabofix, but all other cannons do have exploding shells.

And the debate on Hisp/mausers has shown that they should be quite a bit more lethal than the mauser, unless you have been reading a thread that I have missed.

They definatly should be more powerful then the 151. I have learned a great deal about the HS and it should probaly be the benchmark cannon for WW2. Pyros job is to decide if flying 4 of them in AH is like flying 4 of them in WW2. I suspect that it is not. The LW planes are not underguned by any stretch.(imho) So we come down to a question of how much more powerful?
Removing the 1c has got to be the wrong answer. For the tanks... add 5mm or roof armour. Add a 20mm ack wagon. Add set ambush command.
For the planes. ....alot harder. But please dont make it 30% less effecitve. Find out why its more effecitve then it should be(if it is  )

[Lephturn]

BTW, in Tour 3 I was 24 kills to 3 deaths in the F4U-1D.  Nothin' wrong with 6x.50 cal my friends.  

(Don't look at my tour-4 numbers... I'm in a slump. <G>  I'm only 9K to 6D already  )

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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/


"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[-lazs-]

stsanta... I would love to "fly along" with you in your g10.   Can you join up with someone in this sim?  I mean, can a person co-pilot or observe?
lazs