Author Topic: is iraq in a state of civil war?  (Read 587 times)

Offline JB88

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« on: November 29, 2006, 12:05:47 AM »
yes or no?
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 12:16:52 AM »
I don't think so. At least not from what my friends who keep doing time in the sandbox tell me.

But NBC says it's so. Maybe we should ask Walter Cronkite.
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Offline DiabloTX

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 12:17:53 AM »
Yes.

And no.
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Offline Suave

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 12:22:31 AM »
It's been in a state of civil war.

A year ago I read that the number of people displaced (aka. refugees) by sectarian violence (civil warfare) was 300,000.  I may be wrong but I think the sectarian violence in iraq has gotten a lot worse since then. Over 3,000 iraqis were killed in october this year. I would call that warfare, and the participants are from the same country, so yes, civil war.

Offline cav58d

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 12:27:07 AM »
Unfortunately by defination, i'm going to have to say yes...But does civil war mean Iraq is a lost cause?  No, I don't think so, but time is fleeing quickly and we need to step it up, or this will be Viet Nam II
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 12:39:40 AM »
I'm hearing from several sources that the "sectarian violence" isn't necessarily really sectarian, and futher, a lot of it is driven by foreign mercenaries. If foreign forces are indeed helping to instigate or initiate the violence, then it is not necessarily sectarian nor is it necessarily a civil war.
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Offline EagleEyes

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 12:46:48 AM »
Its a NO


I have many friends and family that are over there.  They all say the news hear makes it sounds 10000xs worse then it actually is.  



Hope this can stay very civil.  Many topics like this have been closed because ppl cant stay mature about it!
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Offline tedrbr

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 01:00:37 AM »
# a civil war was a war fought between people of the same countries.
http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/7695/glossary.html

YES

# A war between factions of the same country; there are five criteria for international recognition of this status: the contestants must control territory, have a functioning government, enjoy some foreign recognition, have identifiable regular armed forces, and engage in major military operations.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-20/10020gl.htm

NO.... but real close..... my opinion, this definition is not keeping with the times and reality of low-tech urban combat.  Many African "Civil Wars" of the past don't meet this criteria.

# Noun (Plural: Civil Wars) An internal war between to factions within a country, ie The English Civil War and the Wars of the Roses
semper.freelinuxhost.com/Articles/Information/dictionary.htm

YES

# a conflict between two groups of people who are citizens of the same state
http://www.naiadonline.ca/book/01Glossary.htm

YES

# a war between factions in the same country
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

YES

# A civil war is a war in which the competing parties are segments of the same country or empire. Civil war is usually a high intensity stage in an unresolved political struggle for national control of state power. As in any war, the conflict may be over other matters such as religion, ethnicity, or distribution of wealth. Some civil wars are also categorized as revolutions when major societal restructuring is a possible outcome of the conflict.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war

YES


There is a very severe problem with the basic premise of this question though... We in the western countries see them all as Iraqis.  We see their nation as Iraq.  Nationalism is a very low priority with those people.

The borders of Iraq were put in place by the British Empire.  

They identify themsleves with their religion and ethnic background; Sunni-Arab, *****e-Arab, Sunni-Kurd, *****e-Kurd, Turkomen, *****e-Persian.  Their loyalties lie with their clan, their religious leader, their family.... not with Iraq.

[edit.... a major sect of a Islamic religion is filtered out in these forums?  All of Islam should decend upon the offices of HiTech in holy jihad ]

Its a part of the world.... the oldest of old world.... used to Alexander the Greats, Ottoman Empire, Byzantine Empire, The Pax Mongolia (or the peace of the grave I like to consider it...).... they are used to be ruled by Kings.  To think democracy would flourish there in the western ideal was simplistic and naive and arrogant.  


As to cav58d that it is not a lost cause.  I think I am beginning to disagree.  We've made too many mistakes for too long.  I think we've passed a point where the situation can be recovered.  It now comes down to how bad bad can get and for how long.  It's damage control now, not a complete or adequate fix of the situation.  

30 years from now, this will be a study in how to screw up by the numbers for the American State Department, Administration, Congress, and the Military Leadership.  We have great soldiers, but we are really hurting for competent leadership, and as a nation...... we are not at war.  The American military is at war.... not the civilian population at large.  No draft.  No million man armies.  No sizable war expenditures as compared to WWII, Korea, Vietnam.....
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 01:03:49 AM by tedrbr »

Offline Debonair

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 01:03:52 AM »
if you can judge by what teh newpapers tell u, it seems fairly uncivil "over there"

Offline cav58d

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2006, 01:13:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EagleEyes
Its a NO


I have many friends and family that are over there.  They all say the news hear makes it sounds 10000xs worse then it actually is.  



Hope this can stay very civil.  Many topics like this have been closed because ppl cant stay mature about it!


I also have a handful of friends (grunts) who are spread out across the major citys of Iraq...Sure they say Western News is really blowing up what is going on, but that isn't to say that conditions are not absolutely terrible over there...especially for our GI's.

I supported this war since it was sold from Bush.  Can't say i'm still sold on why we are there, and what kind of progress we are making, but I will continue to hope for a military and political victory when all is said and done...If its not a civil war over there then what is it?  QUit frankly I don't care if you call it a civil war or a freaking candy party, fact is we are losing GI's every day.  Its time to get our act together, cut the PC and "sensitivity" BS right away and start fighting a war like a war is supposed to be fought.  War is the worst thing on earth.  Men killing men for political purposes.  Nothing more, nothing less...Lets quit the drama, flex our muscles and win this thing.
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Offline JB88

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 04:24:42 AM »
okay...so why the resistance to the term?  what does it change?



:confused:
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Offline FiLtH

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 08:24:47 AM »
I don't get all this secretarian violence. Don't they pay em enuff over there to do office work?

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Offline lazs2

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 08:35:28 AM »
I am thinking that the whole muslim world is in a state of civil war....  like the irish protestant and catholic thing but on a grand scale.

sensless...  one sect of their barbaric and backward religion claiming the other is not backward and barbaric enough.

They simply want to kill each other... they enjoy it.   when they get tired of killing each other or can spare the resources they will start killing non muslims again.

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Offline Eagler

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2006, 08:42:59 AM »
uncivilized war is more like it..

you have to be < one step above an animal to condon bombing market places & churches

I think it is more political than anything with each side using their thugs in an attempt to gain power and control - and we are stuck in the middle of it
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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is iraq in a state of civil war?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2006, 09:08:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
okay...so why the resistance to the term?  what does it change?



:confused:


Why is there such rabid insistance on using it?
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe