Testing Capture system in LW orange today

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by twitchy
Radar dude. You have Radar.
There isn't going to be a middle ground here until you accept the fact that alot of us don't like anything but sneaking around on the fringes and shooting at inanimate objects.

[Flayed1]

Originally posted by Laurie
cc flayed its some nice work your doing ,

any chance of having 'chain starters' dotted around coast for CV;s and noe over-water missions, not every base but some is an acceptable compromise surely?,

maybe have it so that there are samller and more zones, but to be able to to capture any of these bases you must own the 'keyhole base' for that zone, so have lil clusters of bases that depend on the ownership of say two/one 'keyhole bases'


<>

 I think this could be a possibility though at the moment HT seems to be going with loops so I don't know if the system allows for the starting of other individual threads.  Even if it dosn't you could run a line from a freindly base across the water to an NME base and finger out a bit.  Either just to be a thorn in the NMEs' side or maybe the base is next to a factory so you could pork strat easier.

  Really we just need to get through the tests so HT can see what seems to work best for his vision of the game and then bea able to lay out some ground rules for the lines just like they did for making maps.

 Here is a quote from the other thread.

"Thanks flayed1, That should work for the next round. Btw hope to have the system in place, along with releaseing the terrain editor that lays out the paths.

And yes it wouldn't be to big of deal to have multiple path sets per terrain, even thow they are made in the TE, the are not int the terrain file itself, but just reside on the host.

HiTech"


 Sounds like we are getting closer to the end of the test

[Flayed1]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Thanks for all the work on this  Flayd1.

  Your welcome.

 I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to program this stuff in

[BaldEagl]

OK.  I finally relented and went into the orange arena, not just to see what it looked like, but to fly tonight.  Let me recount my experience:

On the Rook side of the map (remember, I'm always a Bish) the two capturable bases were both VB's.  My first mission I up an F6F heavy and head to the enemy VB.  A friendly bomber gets the first two hangers, I get the third plus ord and fuel, targets we won't really need after capture.  I fly home thinking maybe this isn't so bad.  Now I see enemy dar bar building in the sector defending their VB so I up a Spit.  I fly out, get two and get shot down.  OK, this is still better than I thought it would be.  Dar bar keeps building so I arrange a mission.  10 heavy F6F's, 10 Spits to clear the path and 2 C47's to take the base.   We take off with 2 F6F's, 3 Spits and 1 C47 after 15 minutes of plea's to join the mission.  We almost succeed but where's that spirit of teamwork I've been reading about in this thread?  Most of us re-up to re-try the same run but now we've got Rook fighters coming in from the west of the airfield we're upping from.  Most of us get picked by the higher enemy fighters.  Now our VB is flashing.  I up a Tiger and get a quick kill on a Pazer.  Soon I'm facing two Tigers and one gets my turret.  I end flight successfully but the hangers are down.  I decide it's time for a short break and get absorbed watching the last 30 minutes of School of Rock.  I come back and the Rooks have steamrolled 3 bases.  There's huge red dar bar and no friendlies up on this side of the map.  Rooks have a big #'s advantage.  I check the other side of the map but Rooks have #'s and fields and we're not doing much better on the other side.  I exit for the Blue arena where I had great fights, mostly outnumbered, but fun, the rest of the night.

A few things to note out of this experience:

1.  I had more fun and thought the change wasn't as bad when I was winning than when I was losing.

2.  I never saw nor experienced this great  team-work I've reading about in this thread.

3.  I got bored with my limited options, to the point where TV was a better option than the game (almost unheard of).

4.  I got exasporated with the overwhelming #'s the Rooks were able to put against us.  Had I had another option, I actually believe I could have turned the course of their attack single handedly or at least I would have given it a try.

5.  In the Blue arena I kept continually diving into outnumbered situations (mostly 1 on 3-5's) but at least I had the option of deciding how outnumbered I wanted to be so I had more fun trying it.

Just one nights "test".

[twitchy]

Three bases Oinked in Blue Arena Tonight. Plenty of Fights.
I went to Orange for a little this evening and Logged out after trying to fight 50 cons with a FPS of 10. No Progress, reminded me alot of playing Asteroids on the Atari.

Furballing is a disease. Base Taking is the Cure.
Oink.

[Booz]

On the planned one way capture paths:

   I don't get something, isn't it true that if a team gets temporarily bottled into a one way string that they'll never be able to mount a counter attack back out of that corner? Take a look at Flayed's map east landmass northwest corner.. The east country could get pused into that set of fields and thereafter pretty much be ignored as they can't fight their way out.

   I'd think you'd want every path link to always be 2 way.

[stegor]

Well ....at this point this is becoming an infantry game; this is the negation of aviation.
You could play this game with panzers, soldiers and jeeps....

The peculiarity of aviation is the possibility of having a large range of theatre of operation , skipping the  obstacle of having to conquer a city/ base in a sequence given by their proximity.
We are losing all this, we are negating what the planes were used for in war, not only for air superiority in an area.
We will not have bomber mission, noe mission, we will not have mission at all, just a big battle for ONE field then another battle for the following field and so on.....
Try to imagine changing planes with soldiers and panzers......you have the same result, you can do the same.....Aces High is becoming  Aces of Land:huh

[mutant]

Well I gave it a chance, but this change blows.

It is exactly what I predicted it would be, when the #s are even  WWI trench warfare...i.e. lotsa dying with little to show for it or when the #'s are uneven....the hoard just powering on down the line.... no thinking involved.

If all the arena go this way HT will lose my 14.95 a month cause frankly this is BORING!


And why was the change needed? Because people didn't want to have to worry about defending their bases! Well now u got it...no need to worry about your flanks, and no suspense/surprise to keep the game dynamic! Also no battles between small groups where a true display of skill will make a difference, only 'the hoard' vs 'the hoard' or else 'the hoard' rolling down the line.


cnuk

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Traveler
Nothing like haveing good directions.  Any chance that the game documentation has been updated or is everyone just winging it?

The game documentation was updated the day the test went into effect.

[Viking]

*Snip*

[bj229r]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
OK.  I finally relented and went into the orange arena, not just to see what it looked like, but to fly tonight.  Let me recount my experience:

On the Rook side of the map (remember, I'm always a Bish) the two capturable bases were both VB's.  My first mission I up an F6F heavy and head to the enemy VB.  A friendly bomber gets the first two hangers, I get the third plus ord and fuel, targets we won't really need after capture.  I fly home thinking maybe this isn't so bad.  Now I see enemy dar bar building in the sector defending their VB so I up a Spit.  I fly out, get two and get shot down.  OK, this is still better than I thought it would be.  Dar bar keeps building so I arrange a mission.  10 heavy F6F's, 10 Spits to clear the path and 2 C47's to take the base.   We take off with 2 F6F's, 3 Spits and 1 C47 after 15 minutes of plea's to join the mission.  We almost succeed but where's that spirit of teamwork I've been reading about in this thread?  Most of us re-up to re-try the same run but now we've got Rook fighters coming in from the west of the airfield we're upping from.  Most of us get picked by the higher enemy fighters.  Now our VB is flashing.  I up a Tiger and get a quick kill on a Pazer.  Soon I'm facing two Tigers and one gets my turret.  I end flight successfully but the hangers are down.  I decide it's time for a short break and get absorbed watching the last 30 minutes of School of Rock.  I come back and the Rooks have steamrolled 3 bases.  There's huge red dar bar and no friendlies up on this side of the map.  Rooks have a big #'s advantage.  I check the other side of the map but Rooks have #'s and fields and we're not doing much better on the other side.  I exit for the Blue arena where I had great fights, mostly outnumbered, but fun, the rest of the night.

A few things to note out of this experience:

1.  I had more fun and thought the change wasn't as bad when I was winning than when I was losing.

2.  I never saw nor experienced this great  team-work I've reading about in this thread.

3.  I got bored with my limited options, to the point where TV was a better option than the game (almost unheard of).

4.  I got exasporated with the overwhelming #'s the Rooks were able to put against us.  Had I had another option, I actually believe I could have turned the course of their attack single handedly or at least I would have given it a try.

5.  In the Blue arena I kept continually diving into outnumbered situations (mostly 1 on 3-5's) but at least I had the option of deciding how outnumbered I wanted to be so I had more fun trying it.

Just one nights "test".

Vast majority of the 'teamwork' here has been on the part of Rooks, which have skewed LW arena 's for the shorterm (unfortunately), as the megasquad countries have apparently decided they cant excerise dominance with this setup-- I stayed in Orange for a couple missions last night (Rook) went to Blue out of boredom to particpate in an emdless series of 5 on 10's coming in at 20k--(died a lot, but it was slightly more fun than having NO targets)

I DO have great hopes for this new setup, though. Nothin wrong with a little fight to take a base

[ridley1]

Just had a thought......

Instead of straight line capture....install a radius system.

so if you attack and capture a base.....all bases within 'x' miles, become capturable.

In that same vein...a CV, all bases within 'x' miles of the CV become capturable as well

I think that this will focus the fight in certain areas, which I'm assuming the whole idea of the orange arena tryout is about, but then allow for a little bit of latitude for sneaks, end runs and flanking maneuvers.  Plus it can give the ability to do a 'deep strike' to mess up an enemy's rear.

As well, the CV's can be use to open up a new front, and are no longer useless if the capture line is inland. (will it be normandy, or the Pas de Calaise?)

Not being a programming geek, but, programming in the allowable capture distance could be used along the same vien of ENY and adjustable according to arena conditions.

like I say....just a thought

[Skuzzy]

Fixed it Viking.  By the way, that would have been a good use of a PM.  But thank you for pointing it out.

[Flayed1]

Originally posted by Booz
On the planned one way capture paths:

   I don't get something, isn't it true that if a team gets temporarily bottled into a one way string that they'll never be able to mount a counter attack back out of that corner? Take a look at Flayed's map east landmass northwest corner.. The east country could get pused into that set of fields and thereafter pretty much be ignored as they can't fight their way out.

   I'd think you'd want every path link to always be 2 way.

  The one way strings start at a T base so the idea is that to save the one way string you need to take the T base base back from the attackers by coming down from the main 2 way base loop.  Then you would have to clean any attackers out of the one way string if they had taken any bases on it..  

 The attackers on the other hand are going to want to move on up the 2 way main chain fast to keep the defenders from getting the T base back while cleaning out the 1 way chain so they didn't have defenders harassing them
from the rear.

   If the lines are done right no country should ever be totaly stuck.  You may have pockets of bases that need saving from the main line but that is it.

 This will basicly for a limited time open up another front on the map...  If the timing was right there could be 4 fronts open against 1 attacker at the same time depending on how they moved up the chain. And if the timing was real good that would be a total of 8 bases that were being fought over at the same time if you include the 3rd country though I would think that would be rare.

 This is not taking into concideration any future line maps with CAAT bases thrown in here and there for NOE raids and such.  Also I think that we could at some points branch off into 2 other lines instead of the small single branches I have here.  

 What I was going for on my line setup was an improved version of the current setup with more thought given to what base was captured when to avoid the (To many Vbases in a row with no air cover) type stall the current setup seems to have.   But yet keep HiTechs new idea, the forking 1 way lines simple so we can see how it works.

  I would think that after the tests are done we could then make more complex and exciting line maps.

[Flayed1]

Originally posted by ridley1
Just had a thought......

Instead of straight line capture....install a radius system.

so if you attack and capture a base.....all bases within 'x' miles, become capturable.

In that same vein...a CV, all bases within 'x' miles of the CV become capturable as well

I think that this will focus the fight in certain areas, which I'm assuming the whole idea of the orange arena tryout is about, but then allow for a little bit of latitude for sneaks, end runs and flanking maneuvers.  Plus it can give the ability to do a 'deep strike' to mess up an enemy's rear.

As well, the CV's can be use to open up a new front, and are no longer useless if the capture line is inland. (will it be normandy, or the Pas de Calaise?)

Not being a programming geek, but, programming in the allowable capture distance could be used along the same vien of ENY and adjustable according to arena conditions.

like I say....just a thought

 Actually I think this is possible to some degree now.  HT said  something to the effect of having the line branch out to 3 bases from a single base.  When I was working on this line setup I might have gone to concervitive with my forks but then again it should make it easy to see how the branch system works this way.






EDIT:  Skuzz your up early