Now Thai Airlines is next to cancel A380 ordrers

[Dinger]

you know, these stories of "Airbus will make a success out of it yet" sound vaguely familiar. I mean, I predicted Iraq would be a disaster, and every step of the way we had hte emotionally attached hardcore saying otherwise -- "missoin accomplished" was just around the corner. Now I've been calling Skytanic since I heard about the A380, and I still see folks insisting that the good times for EADS are just around the corenr; that the A380 test flight was "mission accompished" and everything else is gravy.

I've got no love for "me generation" have-it-alls like Ripsnort here, but
it's through news work by him and his European counterparts that I realize I was wrong about both Airbus and Iraq.

The problem wasn't the scope of the project, but rather the management that tried to put it into place: the management that rose to power through infighting, and had come to value victories in the tiny esoteric management circle more than tangible gains in the real world. This is the sort of management that rose to the top by describing the world as their bosses wanted to hear it, and opposed to what their bosses' enemies thought, and not by telling it as it was. And ultimately, a top-down management structure leads to disaster.

If all Europeans lose as a result of the A380 disaster is EADS (which I doubt), they should consider themselves lucky this time.

[Ripsnort]

Oh come on dinger. You know you love me, and you know you love my carpeted garage. You're just not man enough to come out of the closet and admit it.

[Debonair]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
...my carpeted garage...

if u were a girl, that'd be a euphemism:O (unless u were brittney spears)

[john9001]

whats a u-fer-risim?

[firbal]

The back order for Boeing is good news. But as an layed off Boeing worker, kind of better sweet. I got hit by the 9/11 lay off. Boeing did call me back last year. But I decided to stay out here at Lockheed, betting my future retirement on the F-35. I'm close to getting layed off here. If I had gone back to Everett, I wouldn't of gotten married. But if I had gone back, I may not have to worry about getting layed off again there. Hard to say what would of been right to decide.

Hey Rip, what is the percentage of layed off workers have come back?

[Yeager]

a couple of real important Boeing people went to prison on that tanker deal hawco.  Just as it should be but thats an entirely different scenario than whats going on with the 747-8/787 and the A380/A350 programs.

Firbal,

I cant speak on rips org but in the one I was in during the big layoffs we lost about 35 people.  Of those I would estimate maybe as many as 20 were recalled.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by firbal
The back order for Boeing is good news. But as an layed off Boeing worker, kind of better sweet. I got hit by the 9/11 lay off. Boeing did call me back last year. But I decided to stay out here at Lockheed, betting my future retirement on the F-35. I'm close to getting layed off here. If I had gone back to Everett, I wouldn't of gotten married. But if I had gone back, I may not have to worry about getting layed off again there. Hard to say what would of been right to decide.

Hey Rip, what is the percentage of layed off workers have come back?

Firbal, your story proves that there is indeed a silver lining behind every cloud.  Sorry to hear about your upcoming layoff.

I couldn't tell you what percentage, I know that quite a few hourly workers were hired back in, but not as in past "unswings" at Boeing, since most of the work is now given to vendors. If you remember, rumors going around since the early 90's that "Boeing wants to be an assembler of aircraft" rather than a builder of every part. That has come true.  The Unions stubborness, and the companies quest to make planes cheaper (to keep up with the competition) made this possible.

In my particular IT group I've been with since 1999, we went from 16 employees to 6, now we're up to about 28, but some of that is due to combining groups.  Back in 2003, the average age at Boeing was 48 years old. I felt like a young man at the company then...now they're hiring quite a few college kids (salary or engineering jobs) so the overall avg age is dropping once again.

Its hard to believe that Boeing laid off 50,000 from 9/11/2001 to roughly 6/2003. Thats alot of people displaced because of a few of nutbags believing that Allah had 72 virgins waiting for them.

[mietla]

I think that the newly unveiled 570 will take over the entire market. I would buy stock if I were you. I did.

[-tronski-]

I had a meeting with the manager in charge of the A380 operations implementation for Qantas in sydney some weeks ago.
They are not surprised with the delays with the A380, because Qantas operations also remember delays with 747's etc. When Qantas increased their A380 order, they also used the "bad publicity" to get a good deal with Airbus with an order of A340's. He also remarked that the company also expect the same to happen with the 787.

...business as usual

 Tronsky

[Yeager]

The 777 was cutting edge when it was designed, and Boeing managed that program on time and on weight.  All those young engineers on the 777 are now senior engineers on then 787.  The 787 will meet its schedule, and the first customer bird will be on weight.  The 787 is the most successfull launch airplane in commercial aviation history.  Im developing the opinion that the A380 and the A350 wont best that.  Not by a long shot.  Boeing played this one spot on.  And the success of the 747-8 is just frosting on the cake.

[Debonair]

no cost effective airline has been cutting edge since the 707
i hope boeing uses the buckets of dough ther're making to build something advanced so i only have to sit next to the farting hippo lady lighting matches for 1 1/2 hours instead of 5

[john9001]

take the train, walk around, meet people, eat in a dining car, sleep in a bed, see the country.

[Nilsen]

I take the train whenever im not in a hurry. By far more relaxing and enjoyable than a plane.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by john9001
take the train, walk around, meet people, eat in a dining car, sleep in a bed, see the country.

Now we're talking!  My kids, wife and I took the train out to our family reunion in 2002 (the boys were 4 and 7 respectively) It was a 60  hour round trip. We reserved the "Family Sleeper" cabin, the very rear of the Amtrak train, that stretches the full width of the train.  That was real nice!  Spendy though.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by -tronski-
I had a meeting with the manager in charge of the A380 operations implementation for Qantas in sydney some weeks ago.
They are not surprised with the delays with the A380, because Qantas operations also remember delays with 747's etc. When Qantas increased their A380 order, they also used the "bad publicity" to get a good deal with Airbus with an order of A340's. He also remarked that the company also expect the same to happen with the 787.

...business as usual

 Tronsky

Hey Tron, I'll repeat myself: the 747 was delayed by 3 months for first flight only... Not 2 years to delivery of first customer. Big difference. Boeing was on time on its first delivery.

Now what your manager probably doesn't remember is that a Qantas order, at some point in time, was delayed due to a labor strike, which Boeing has had 4 or 5 since the 747 flew.  (Both UAW and SPEEA unions combined)

Good on Qantas for taking advantage of the bad publicity. That sounds like some good management techniques. If you can get it cheaper,  you help the company.

I certainly hope we don't repeat what the A380 program has done, also, as I mentioned above, the major set back for A380 is being prevented as I type this message at Boeing. I can't be specific,(proprioritary, Boeing-limited info) but lets just leave it at "we've learned from the A380 program what not to do".