Author Topic: Arena Balance  (Read 5304 times)

Offline SlapShot

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Re: There seem to be two sides.......
« Reply #105 on: December 07, 2006, 01:07:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moto61
There seem to be two sides as previously suggested.

Why not try an areana that is strictly for furballers. All bases are non-capturable and an arena for folks like myself that like to play a game to win.

You can then seperate the two competing entities in this game.

I like to play to win, I am a Bish and do not care to change sides for any reason, and I am probably not unique in my game play or loyalty to a side.

Why not try this?

Moto61


This has nothing to do with "furballers" and what they want ... geesh ... get over it.

I am supposedly a "furballer", or have been told so on numerous occasions. Since this new "capture" format, I have 4 personal captures myself and have spent more time in GVs in the last week or so than I have in the past two years.

When I am not doing that, I am usually on station for base defense and the best part about that now, is that I am not the only one or 1 of maybe 3 or 4 that might up for defense under the old format. The new format is steering people to be together and fight together.

Last night I was defending a base against a pretty well fleshed out attack group. Well guess what ? ... we had a pretty well fleshed out defensive group. The fight between the 2 fields waned back and forth between the mid-point for quite some time. It was a blast ... it wasn't a genuine furball, but it had all the attributes of one ... couldn't ask for anything better.

This format should appease both side of the fence ...

"furballers" cause now you know where the fight is and there will be plenty of targets.

"strateegerists" cause now you have a real challenge. It's gonna take more than a handfull of 110s and a goon in 5 minutes to take a base on the "blue line". Real strategy needs to be employed to take bases.
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Offline Flayed1

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« Reply #106 on: December 07, 2006, 01:09:18 PM »
OOps posted in the wrong thread :)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 01:12:34 PM by Flayed1 »
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Offline Laurie

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« Reply #107 on: December 07, 2006, 01:35:14 PM »
I fly bish because my squad fly bish and always will.
also, a lot of good friends are of mine i've made in this game are in bish, for me this game aint just about shooting down 3d images, its about the people, the community, the laughs. 15-20% of my time is spent chatting on this game, discussing things and having a laugh.
won't be moved by a silly system to level out sides because lil jonny's  dropped his ice cream and he don't think its fair.
don't have a problem with being outnumbred, thats just life, it aint always perfect and you can't be spoon-fed all the time. queing syrstem would just take up more of HTC's time for AH, wich is low anyway atm ,due to combat tour.

grow up a bit guys, tis just a game, isn't gonna kill you if other team has 20 more players for a few hours, cos theres a good chance tomorrow you'll have the numbers advantage, most of them are usaully in the tower most of time anyway ;).
:noid
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 01:38:48 PM by Laurie »

Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #108 on: December 07, 2006, 02:29:32 PM »
Laurie,

I've been Bish forever too.  I remember when Bish were ALWAYS outnumbered.  Once I changed over to Rook for a day to see what it would be like to be on the side with numbers.  That's where I found out about the eny system.  Couldn't fly anything I wanted to so I flipped back to Bish the next day.  Lately the Bish have had numbers in the Blue arena.  It's been sort of refreshing to be on the other side of the fence for a change but lately (the past couple of nights) I've moved to the Orange arena and now it's as it's always been.  Outnumbered.

Think about the newbies coming into this game though.  Inexperienced and being put into the outnumbered country.  They're probably having enough trouble just getting off the airfield much less being asked to be one of a handfull against a hoard.  I can see where many noobs would either give up their account in frustration or move to the side with safety in numbers.  I guess this argument only makes sense if there are reasonable numbers of newbies signing on on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

Just another consideration.

[EDIT]:  after years of playing these games the numbers thing ebbs and flows.  What is now will not always be.  Things will assuredly change over time.  Still, some system of side balancing should be implemented.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 02:32:08 PM by BaldEagl »
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Offline TinmanX

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Crazy thought
« Reply #109 on: December 07, 2006, 02:46:42 PM »
Couldn't side numbers be determined by K/D?

CountryAFlightNumbersAllowed=CountryBInFlightKD+CountryCInFlightKD/2
AND
CountryBFlightNumbersAllowed=CountryAInFlightKD+CountryCInFlightKD/2
AND
CountryCFlightNumbersAllowed=CountryBInFlightKD+CountryAInFlightKD/2

So, lets say A has 3 pilots in flight, B has 5 pilots in flight and C has 1 pilot in flight.
         K/D
A-1   2
A-2   0.4
A-3   3.6
Total KD = 6

B-1   3.2
B-2   1.2
B-3   0.3
B-4   0.3
B-5   10
Total KD = 15

C-1  1.4
Total KD = 1.4

CountryAFlightNumbersAllowed= 8.2
(CountryBInFlightKD(15)+CountryCInFlightKD(1.4)
/2)
AND
CountryBFlightNumbersAllowed=3.7
(CountryAInFlightKD(6)+CountryCInFlightKD(1.4)
/2)
AND
CountryCFlightNumbersAllowed=10.5
(CountryBInFlightKD(15)+CountryAInFlightKD(6)
/2)

Cos the stats are telling me that, for example SHawk in a fighter is worth 12.2 enemy pilots. So if SHawk ups, for the Rooks, the Bish and Knights should be allowed 6.1 pilots in the air.
And that idea looks crazy when based on one pilots stats, but I believe that with a greater number of stats added into the equation (more than I want to type in this example) it will work out.

Of course, this would also mean that those pilot that protect their K/D by only vulching planes (no names mentioned), while glorying in their stats themselves, would end up punishing their team-mates as while the stats claim they are equal to 10.5 enemy pilots, they really aren't.

Or, of course, I could be lying.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 02:55:46 PM by TinmanX »
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Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #110 on: December 07, 2006, 02:51:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Laurie
I fly bish because my squad fly bish and always will.
also, a lot of good friends are of mine i've made in this game are in bish, for me this game aint just about shooting down 3d images, its about the people, the community, the laughs. 15-20% of my time is spent chatting on this game, discussing things and having a laugh.
won't be moved by a silly system to level out sides because lil jonny's  dropped his ice cream and he don't think its fair.
don't have a problem with being outnumbred, thats just life, it aint always perfect and you can't be spoon-fed all the time. queing syrstem would just take up more of HTC's time for AH, wich is low anyway atm ,due to combat tour.

grow up a bit guys, tis just a game, isn't gonna kill you if other team has 20 more players for a few hours, cos theres a good chance tomorrow you'll have the numbers advantage, most of them are usaully in the tower most of time anyway ;).
:noid


So you are saying that you wouldn't be able to meet and establish relationships in the other 2 countries ? ... sad.

I don't think anyone here that is concerned about numbers imbalance are worried about a 20 player difference ... it's when 1 country has more than the other 2 combined that causes concern.
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #111 on: December 07, 2006, 02:53:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Laurie
also, a lot of good friends are of mine i've made in this game are in bish, for me this game aint just about shooting down 3d images, its about the people, the community, the laughs.
:noid



The people, the community, the laughs are actually the best reasons to switch countries from time to time.
You can still feel loyal to bish while crossing the fence from time to time. You can meet new people, wing with former "enemies", have a laugh with people you usually shoot down, gain respect by people you would only meet as a red icon otherwise and learn that basically all countries are the same.
I fly knight most of my time, but when numbers favor nits too much or when I just need a break from all these "nits canīt organize!" cries, I go on "vacation" for a few hours. Much fun if you shoot down your own teammates. And  even if you would never fight against Bish, well thereīs always a 3rd country to attack...
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Offline SlapShot

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Re: Crazy thought
« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2006, 02:56:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TinmanX
Couldn't side numbers be determined by K/D?

CountryAFlightNumbersAllowed=CountryBInFlightKD+CountryCInFlightKD/2
AND
CountryBFlightNumbersAllowed=CountryAInFlightKD+CountryCInFlightKD/2
AND
CountryCFlightNumbersAllowed=CountryBInFlightKD+CountryAInFlightKD/2

So, lets say A has 3 pilots in flight, B has 5 pilots in flight and C has 1 pilot in flight.
         K/D
A-1   2
A-2   0.4
A-3   3.6
Total KD = 6

B-1   3.2
B-2   1.2
B-3   0.3
B-4   0.3
B-5   10
Total KD = 15

C-1  1.4
Total KD = 1.4

CountryAFlightNumbersAllowed= 8.2
(CountryBInFlightKD(15)+CountryCInFlightKD(1.4)
/2)
AND
CountryBFlightNumbersAllowed=3.7
(CountryAInFlightKD(6)+CountryCInFlightKD(1.4)
/2)
AND
CountryCFlightNumbersAllowed=10.5
(CountryBInFlightKD(15)+CountryAInFlightKD(6)
/2)

Cos the stats are telling me that, for example SHawk in a fighter is worth 12.2 enemy pilots. So if SHawk ups, for the Rooks, the Bish and Knights should be allowed 6.1 pilots in the air.
And that idea looks crazy when based on one pilots stats, but I believe that with a greater number of stats added into the equation (more than I want to type in this example) it will work out.

Or, of course, I could be lying.


Only if K/D numbers were reliable ... with vulching and people vultch their squadmates to inflate these numbers ... and on the other end of the stick ... there are some who's K/D sucks because they would rather auger than fly a sector or more to land 0 kills.

These are not numbers that I would want to trust in such a system ... they can be gamed too easily.
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Offline TinmanX

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« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2006, 02:57:48 PM »
I agree Slap, and in fact edited into my post as you were posting. Gotta love simuls.

And of course, this would mean the community would have to police itself, as HTC wishes (or so I believe I have read previously), and those people you mention would be discouraged by their peers from their course of action.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 03:00:04 PM by TinmanX »
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Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #114 on: December 07, 2006, 03:42:23 PM »
How about giving the team with the lowest numbers a size-able increase in perk returns. That would drag alot of fighter guys over to the low team.
   Then introduce the B29 that only the lowest team can use. Once numbers are in par with the other sides, the B29 is unavailable.

    OK..if not a B29..how about switches that turn of bomber formation for the highest teams, and letting only the low team have formation. It would make it tuffer on the higher teams to gain more ground, and make many jump sides so they could get a formation. Once all teams are within 10 guys or so of eachother, formation becomes available to that team.

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Offline airspro

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« Reply #115 on: December 07, 2006, 05:18:21 PM »
LYNX has a good point . People leave to go to the easier side alot of times .

We've all seen this happen , shoot down some player and next time you see him he's flying beside you .

Might be a good idea that time limit to move to another MA , or at least something like it .

Knights were most allways low numbers since I been back playing . When I rejoined the game in March it stuck my in Rooks were most of the guys I knew from before were flying so I stayed . I was a Rook since 2002 when I left to play DAoC :( wat a wast of my time . I really don't want to switch around as I am just now starting to make some friends again . I have no problems playing with the low numbers either . Been there and done that .

I do think that being able to shut down Bar DAR is not fun for the low side and is really not in the best interest of the game .
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Offline moto61

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Re: Re: There seem to be two sides.......
« Reply #116 on: December 07, 2006, 05:37:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
This has nothing to do with "furballers" and what they want ... geesh ... get over it.



Like I said there seems to be 2 competing entities. The notion of swapping sides to balance out numbers seems acceptable why not the idea of logging into the arena that most fits your mood at the time.  Sometimes I did not feel like doing anything coordinated and would help in some defensive (hehehe) furballs.

Furballers don't mind segregating them self into a mountain range of 3 bases what would be the difference of segregating into a seperate arena?

Flame away..................

Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #117 on: December 07, 2006, 06:44:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
How about giving the team with the lowest numbers a size-able increase in perk returns. That would drag alot of fighter guys over to the low team.
   Then introduce the B29 that only the lowest team can use. Once numbers are in par with the other sides, the B29 is unavailable.

    OK..if not a B29..how about switches that turn of bomber formation for the highest teams, and letting only the low team have formation. It would make it tuffer on the higher teams to gain more ground, and make many jump sides so they could get a formation. Once all teams are within 10 guys or so of eachother, formation becomes available to that team.


Heres a similar idea.  Remove the need for perks from the lower countries plane choices altogether.  When the sky is full of 262's the overwhelming countries guys will swith sides, swith arenas or log off.  No matter which the sides become balanced again.
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Offline pluck

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Re: Re: Re: There seem to be two sides.......
« Reply #118 on: December 07, 2006, 07:10:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moto61
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
This has nothing to do with "furballers" and what they want ... geesh ... get over it.



Like I said there seems to be 2 competing entities. The notion of swapping sides to balance out numbers seems acceptable why not the idea of logging into the arena that most fits your mood at the time.  Sometimes I did not feel like doing anything coordinated and would help in some defensive (hehehe) furballs.

Furballers don't mind segregating them self into a mountain range of 3 bases what would be the difference of segregating into a seperate arena?

Flame away..................


see discussion should not be about competing, gameplay should.  good gameplay benefits everyone.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 07:14:10 PM by pluck »
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Offline hubsonfire

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Re: Re: Re: There seem to be two sides.......
« Reply #119 on: December 07, 2006, 07:40:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moto61
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
This has nothing to do with "furballers" and what they want ... geesh ... get over it.



Like I said there seems to be 2 competing entities. The notion of swapping sides to balance out numbers seems acceptable why not the idea of logging into the arena that most fits your mood at the time.  Sometimes I did not feel like doing anything coordinated and would help in some defensive (hehehe) furballs.

Furballers don't mind segregating them self into a mountain range of 3 bases what would be the difference of segregating into a seperate arena?

Flame away..................


No rationale for encouraging or tolerating extreme numbers imbalances is a good one. It's a game, and fair or balanced gameplay should be a given, and shouldn't have any negative consequences. Why do so many people panic at the thought of not having a pronounced advantage?
mook
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