« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Freedom is Gone?  (Read 2573 times)

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2006, 10:34:00 AM »
Quote
But... you want to think it over.. the democrats embrace socialism a lot more enthusiasicaly than the republicans embrace facism..


Misconception.  

Extreme left wingedness is Socialism.

Extreme right wingedness is NOT fascism.
Logged
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline wrag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2006, 10:49:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Misconception.  

Extreme left wingedness is Socialism.

Extreme right wingedness is NOT fascism.


I AGREE.

Both the above are forms of communism.  One is more to the left of that which is communism and the other is more to the right of that which is communism.

The way both parties SEEM to be going is towards ..................

anyone wanna take a stab at it??????

BTW Laz thinkin the Liberatarians aren't using the legal system very well and I agree they SHOULD!

If they would get off their butts and get with the fight to retain our rights I'd probably join em.

Thing is about the time the pols realized that people were voting for that party they would probably leave the Dems or Reps and join up to continue in power.  Then manuver like crazy to get control of the party and we would still be dealing with the same people?

Seem to recall some within the Libertarian party claiming that was already starting to happen???
Logged
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline bsdaddict

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1108
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2006, 11:07:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
socialist, facist... makes no real difference in the long run... both are in favor of all controlling big government and no freedom.  In the end.. it is not the type of large all encompassing government you get but the simple fact that large government of any kind is the problem.

agree 100%

Quote
But...  you want to think it over..  the democrats embrace socialism a lot more enthusiasicaly than the republicans embrace facism..

What this means in practicle terms is that... you are gonna lose your essential freedoms (grow government) a lot faster with democrats in power.
in the short run yeah, the D's are marginally worse for liberty lovers than the R's are.  I'm personally hoping that a good dose of D's in power will shock the R's into returning to their conservative roots.  Either that or shock the nation into realizing that neither the D's or the R's are truely interested in protecting the Constitution and make them realize that the only way to "get America right" again is thru third parties.  Maybe I'm being naive... what can I say, I'm an idealist.
Logged

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2006, 11:10:44 AM »
Not quite wrag.

Though very similar, and damn near the same in practice, it's the reasoning behind it that is different.

Socialism believes that the person is incapable of anything, and that the collective is more important.  Because of this, rights and powers are legislated away from the individual, and given to the collective.  But the collective is more often then not a governing body who say that are doing something for the Common Good, or Public Welfare.


Fascism is the drive to totalitarianism.  It has nothing to do with what the people do or do not believe, but the drive to give the governing body more and more control, until they have all control over everything.  The best way to do this is to legislate away power and rights from the individual.


Quote
them realize that the only way to "get America right" again is thru third parties.


Like someone said earlier, anytime a third party comes up with a popular idea, the idea is sucked up into one of the major parties, and the third party again becomes useless.  In time, the idea is eventually phased out, returning the party to it's roots.

Trust me, the only solution left is revolution.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 11:13:00 AM by lasersailor184 »
Logged
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2006, 11:20:05 AM »
exteme right wing thinking also leads to socialism.. that is true but it has to pass through a form a facism first.

All big government roads lead to socialism if you want to get real simplistic about it.  That I agree with..

The democrats won't "shakeup" anything... they will simply lead us down the road to socialism while destroying our second amendment rights and...

the right will see that we shunned them and elected democrats soooo.. when the run again they will be mc cains... they will think we want more socialism and go that direction in order to get elected... maybe I am a pessimist.

One thing for sure tho... you never vote for a party that is trying to destroy the second amendment... in the end.... that is the one amendment that will protect all the others... really...  the only one that can.   All the founders knew this and would consider our firearms laws the beggining of the end.

As for presidents.... Lincoln was the beggining of tyrany and the worst was FDR followed by the second worst... LBJ   Bush is nothing like "the great society" guy nowhere near as bad.

The best pres we ever had was Jefferson followed closely by teddy roosevelt.  If we could find another TR we would probly turn things around.

the libertarians?   an effete impotent group of eggheads with a glorified discussion group.   They are mostly right of course but.... who cares?

And you can tell em for me that is how I feel.

lazs
Logged

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17775
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2006, 12:27:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

So you join the libertarian party?  so what?   Do you get even a "I wasted my vote on a libertarian"  button to wear?   Nope...

lazs


I dont vote for any particular party.
I vote for whom I think will do the best job

This past election I actually wrote in my sons name for congress.

Wasted Vote?

I dont think so.
No more wasted then if I wasted it on either of the other two clowns running for either of the two major parties

Made a mockery of the election process?

Naaa

The Dems and Reps already made the a mockery of the elections a long time before I set foot in the booth

the way I see it is this.

Even if whom I vote for has no chance of winning because of this foolish nonsence that people beleive they are stuck with only 1 of the two majors.

Its still a vote that neither get

the poligods are always looking someplace they can get more votes from.

Look at the 2000 elections how close it was.

dont you think that those that voted outside the major parties might have swing the elections difinitevly one way or the other?

Enough people vote outside the big two. and the big two will be forced to look as where those votes are going.

Now those third party candidates may not have a chance to win.
But the more people that vote for them the greater the message that is sent to the big two that we no longer want what they are offering.

Personally I think if they could just get their act together 08 presents the best chance of one of the thirds and the libritarians in general to make a significant splash.

Neither party has anyone to offer that any reasonable critical thinking person can really stand up and beat a drum about
Logged
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline bsdaddict

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1108
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2006, 02:26:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
One thing for sure tho... you never vote for a party that is trying to destroy the second amendment... in the end.... that is the one amendment that will protect all the others... really...  the only one that can.   All the founders knew this and would consider our firearms laws the beggining of the end.

hrmmm, wasn't New Orleans proof enough that Bush (and the neo-cons) are no more a friend of the Right to Bear Arms than the Dems are?  what about the fact that Bush appointed a known supporter of gun control to the SCOTUS? (EDIT:  AG, not SCOTUS) That would be Gonzales, who has admitted that gun control is a "heart-felt position of his own.", and who supports a federal BAN on all semi-automatic firearms.  Sure, the R's might spew some pro-gun rhetoric when it's campaign season, but do you really see them going to the mat to protect that right?  I haven't...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 03:51:20 PM by bsdaddict »
Logged

Offline Shamus

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3583
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2006, 03:33:48 PM »
Call me Rip VanWinkle, but did I miss the AG's appointment to the supreme court?

shamus
Logged
one of the cats

FSO Jagdgeschwader 11

Offline bsdaddict

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1108
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2006, 03:45:47 PM »
heh, yeah...  Attorney General, not SCOTUS.  my bad...
Logged

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2006, 03:58:19 PM »
Quote
hrmmm, wasn't New Orleans proof enough that Bush


What the **** are you talking about?  There is no way in hell you can connect those two.






Btw, Lazs, it's not that extreme right wingedness leads to socialism, but the idea that you have the right to tell other people what to do.
Logged
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline cpxxx

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2006, 04:33:18 PM »
You have no rights, only those others allow you to have.
Logged

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2006, 05:13:55 PM »
Lasersailor, I think he was referring to the fact that the government was confiscating legally owned firearms from civilians in NOLA during "the crisis".  It also turns out that all the stories about helicopters being shot at were not true, but of course confiscating the arms was "for everyone's safety".

How to control the population:

IN THE OLD DAYS
Religion - "God sez do this"

MODERN DAY
"It's for your own good" + "Don't be soft on crime/terrorism" + "What kind of american are you?"
Logged
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline FBBone

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 549
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2006, 05:22:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
You have no rights, only those others allow you to have.


Rights are God given.  Man can only take them away.
Logged

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2006, 05:27:25 PM »
I was wondering exactly what constitutional rights we Americans have lost recently?
Logged
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline bsdaddict

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1108
Freedom is Gone?
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2006, 06:13:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Lasersailor, I think he was referring to the fact that the government was confiscating legally owned firearms from civilians in NOLA during "the crisis".

yup.  

Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
I was wondering exactly what constitutional rights we Americans have lost recently?

http://flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2231579#post2231579
heh, feeling lazy tonight...  that's a link to a thread from a few weeks back where the same question came up.  

My list was:

right to privacy
right to freedom from unwarranted searches and seizures.
right to due process  (must've been tired, that's the same as the one above)
right to bear arms
right to free speech
right to travel freely

and again I reiterate, this list is by no means exhaustive...
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up
« previous next »