Author Topic: Changes to come.  (Read 40592 times)

Offline BansheCH

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« Reply #540 on: December 13, 2006, 12:27:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Kev: Your full of it if you do not think we have competition.

The real facts are we have blown the direct competitors out of the water. And the 2nd fact is we have beet them with the strategy we use in making changes just like the ones over the last few months.
[/QUOTE

Where is your competition?

I can't see any.

Haven't seen any for a good 3+ years.

Even when I first joined AH1 5+ years ago Warbirds wasn't that good.
So where exactly is this competition? [/B]


ROFL.
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Offline Excaliber

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« Reply #541 on: December 13, 2006, 12:27:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Excaliber: You make 1 huge assumption.

Just because people act in a given fashion (i.e would all jump in the same arena), that the act makes those same people happy.

And that assumption is completely falls.

HiTech


Looks like everyone would have their piece of the Pie to me. But it would be a sure indicator of the popular preference. Easy for you to do too.

Offline Excaliber

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« Reply #542 on: December 13, 2006, 12:29:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
I can answer that.  HTC's competition is any pay-to-play game that has a customer subscribed there and not here.  And even though IL2 is not a pay-to-play (beyond the initial box purchase) it also is serious competition to HTC.



that makes "PONG" competition

Offline Laurie

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« Reply #543 on: December 13, 2006, 12:33:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
I can answer that.  HTC's competition is any pay-to-play game that has a customer subscribed there and not here.  And even though IL2 is not a pay-to-play (beyond the initial box purchase) it also is serious competition to HTC.

have to disagree sir,

people who play this type of online game, are looking for this type of online sim, its not like warcraft which 'catches-on' amongst people, this is a 'specialist game' one of the main reasons why there is little competition.

you will not find many players who play games like 'runescape' in this game for more than their 2-week trial.

your statement is like saying,
H J Samuel jewelry is competition to Tiffany's:rofl

or a vegetable stall is competition to a fish stall in a market,

<>

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #544 on: December 13, 2006, 12:35:42 PM »
Hardly.
mook
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Offline hitech

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« Reply #545 on: December 13, 2006, 12:38:37 PM »
Kev you have just proved my point. When we start AH
The flowing online flight sims all had a lot of players.

AirWarior
Fighter Ace
Warbirds

The direct competitors today are.

Fighter Ace
Warbirds
Target Ware


You saying that they are not real competitors , because you do not like them, is my point about beating the competition. But you just want to say they are not real competition, because we are better, and that is my point, the way we got to be better is doing exactly like we have always done. Continually making changes when we think the changes are for the better. Even at the expense of a period of costumer base complaints.

HiTech

Offline Edbert

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« Reply #546 on: December 13, 2006, 12:41:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
I can answer that.  HTC's competition is any pay-to-play game that has a customer subscribed there and not here.  And even though IL2 is not a pay-to-play (beyond the initial box purchase) it also is serious competition to HTC.

Good answer! Anything PC gamers spend their money playing that is not AH is technically a lost-customer. But the rabid WWII aviation buff (if they are not a rabid buff they'll leave soon after their 2-weeks is up, for sure after 10 months or so) is an incredibly small percentage of the online gamer demographic, not to mention the general PC-gamer. Last I heard there were 7 million (with an "M") folks playin WOW, compare that to the (my estimate) 6,000 paying customers of HTC.

But I beg to differ on that last part Westy, IL2 has a lot to offer the enthusiast no doubt, and I enjoy playing it online from time to time as well. But until Oleg gets the MMOL part figured out they simply are not a direct competitor to AH. According to an old interview MMOL was to be incorporated into Storm of War, but that title is already two years behind schedule, and my money is on it being released WITHOUT support for MMOL.

Offline Westy

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« Reply #547 on: December 13, 2006, 12:43:20 PM »
Of course a customer would have some kind of interest in the genre but sorry, you've got to think outside the box and change your perspective if you want to somewhat understand what is competition for HTC and their product titled "AcesHigh".  The competition is NOT simply  AW, FA, WB or WWIIO.  And it is not in the details such as hard or easy to play nor if it is a sim or arcade.
 I've know many WWII aircombat types who loved playing Evercrack and other "Men Running Around in Tights" type of games so it would be silly for one to think that customers in other genres would not have an interest in flying simulated WWII aircraft in air-combat.

 And  IL2 is competition.  A LOT of pay-to-play customers dropped online subscriptions and went to that one.  Not just from AH either but also from other games such as WWIIO and WB too. If one were to add up those who unsubbed from AH and other pay-to-play venues to play the IL2 series I'd wager the lost income would be substantial.
 edited: Right now there are over 550 players on the Hyperlobby system playing IL2 - Forgotten Battles.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 12:57:37 PM by Westy »

Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #548 on: December 13, 2006, 01:01:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Kev you have just proved my point. When we start AH
The flowing online flight sims all had a lot of players.

AirWarior
Fighter Ace
Warbirds

The direct competitors today are.

Fighter Ace
Warbirds
Target Ware


You saying that they are not real competitors , because you do not like them, is my point about beating the competition. But you just want to say they are not real competition, because we are better, and that is my point, the way we got to be better is doing exactly like we have always done. Continually making changes when we think the changes are for the better. Even at the expense of a period of costumer base complaints.

HiTech


Really isn't a question of whether I like them or not.

Targetware, lol your kidding.
I actually downloaded and tried it a while back (was asked to do some skins for the Vietnam addition), very rough around the edges.

Maybe if it got a huge injection of cash and full time guys dedicated to developing it.

Warbirds, dead it just doesn't know it yet ;)

Fighter Ace, never heard of it, but will go have a look later.
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Offline hitech

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« Reply #549 on: December 13, 2006, 01:07:53 PM »
Kev: I just listed 3 direct competitors, and you are still even thinking about debating the point?

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #550 on: December 13, 2006, 01:11:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Really isn't a question of whether I like them or not.

Targetware, lol your kidding.
I actually downloaded and tried it a while back (was asked to do some skins for the Vietnam addition), very rough around the edges.

Maybe if it got a huge injection of cash and full time guys dedicated to developing it.

Warbirds, dead it just doesn't know it yet ;)

Fighter Ace, never heard of it, but will go have a look later.


Kev, I've always admired your fervor in the MA, but haven't a leg to stand on.  HT's named direct competitors (whether you agree or not is NOT the question) and you are coming across as someone who is "madly flailing the sword while his ship is going down."

<> Kev
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Offline Tilt

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« Reply #551 on: December 13, 2006, 01:31:27 PM »
Competition is every where .......out side of HTC the world and its dog would rather we spent time and money elsewhere..............

HT has made a career out of this genre and the fact that he is still here means todate he has got more right than wrong.................

However having said that this is not his hobby its his business and accountants decide how successful it is................

That means subscribers and it does not mean who subscribes, it means howmany subscribe and how those subscriptions cover and exceed his overheads................

Neither is he milking or maintaining some sort of cash cow. He is investing in CT plus much time and energy in upgrading the whole ac set to the latest standards of accuracy and fidelity compatible with this form of game.

I believe he does stuff because he thinks it's right.

I believe that when he thinks somethings wrong he will change it.

Further I believe that with folk like Pyro beside him he will be told when they think something is wrong.

But the criteria or test will always be the contribution to the business model.

And the business model has gone way past key account or personal service modelling. Its about stats, trends and data.

Yet the CEO of this company spends x hours a day reading these forums trying to explain his desicions to the passionate minority who represent but single figure %'s of his annual turn over. Often having to read stuff varying from accusations of incompetance to terms of down right abuse regarding himself and his employees when in fact I'm pretty sure he's got a team that I'd be pretty proud to have in any company of mine.

The subject of this thread is about change.........

Change means stuff is not the same tomorrow as it was yesterday........

HT knows the trials of change.........

It has to be considered thoroughly, implemented carefully................

If it does not work, I am sure, that after thorough consideration  it'll change again.
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Offline Edbert

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« Reply #552 on: December 13, 2006, 02:23:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
edited: Right now there are over 550 players on the Hyperlobby system playing IL2 - Forgotten Battles.

Just FB? Or are you combining IL2 and AEP and PF and Pe2 and Manchuria and 1946 in that?

I'm going to agree that there's a loss of potential revenue there, that's not really debateable at all. What I meant, and was unable to state clearly, by the word "direct" is that while many folks settle for playing on Hyperlobby it is not good enough to equal much less surpass AH2. Like I said, I play it some, but it is nowhere near the class of product we have here. So while it exists, and it's free, I still keep paying my AH bill since it cannot equal the experience I get from the perpetual MMOL arena(s).

Which goes back to Dale's point that Kev is having trouble grasping...you can have competition that is not really competition.

:D

Edit: I though about deleting this post, since the one Tilt made while I was replying sorta just closes this thread out. Well said mate!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 02:27:11 PM by Edbert »

Offline Stiletto

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« Reply #553 on: December 13, 2006, 02:27:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Kev you have just proved my point. When we start AH
The flowing online flight sims all had a lot of players.

AirWarior
Fighter Ace
Warbirds

The direct competitors today are.

Fighter Ace
Warbirds
Target Ware


You saying that they are not real competitors , because you do not like them, is my point about beating the competition. But you just want to say they are not real competition, because we are better, and that is my point, the way we got to be better is doing exactly like we have always done. Continually making changes when we think the changes are for the better. Even at the expense of a period of costumer base complaints.

HiTech


HT,

When in the last 6 years have any of your changes threatened the squad base? Of course, you're always going to have people complaining, whenever a change of any kind is made - that's human nature.

But breaking the arenas up into smaller caps is already forcing squads with strong squad ops gatherings to either switch to another arena if the one they're flying in becomes full, or split the squads into pieces, with some people flying in this arena, and others playing in another. Even if you assume the LW Blue arena is going to become full sometime in the evening, and switch to another arena, you're then flying with very small numbers, and the massively multi-player environment that has made AH such an amazingly unique sim is lost. Add to that the fact that you will be forced to fly a different plane set, giving up your favorite ride, and a whole bunch of the fun goes out of it.

Now add an artificial balancing restriction, when even moving to another arena is no guarantee that you can keep your squad intact for the evening. This is a set of changes that attacks the very core of the reason many of us subscribe to AH in the first place. I can tell you with strong confidence that, had these restrictions and complications for squads been in place when AW squads were looking for a new home, we never would have moved here.

I know you don't agree with me, and maybe you think I'm trying to manipulate you in some way, but I'm a loyal customer, and my family's 3 accounts have poured thousands of dollars into your coffers over the years, not to mention my squad mates' contributions, and I don't want to see the foundation of the game suffer, due to lack of consideration for what I believe to be the backbone of AH - the squad. I can't speak for other squads, and I know some people on these boards think a squad is just an artificial, virtual collection of individuals that means nothing in the real world.

But the truth is that for many of us, what began as an online, virtual collection of people has grown over the years to extend into the real world. We've all become friends, and visit one another, we're there for each other in times of sickness, good times, bad times, computer problems, birth, death, weddings, divorce - hell, sometimes we even take up a collection to help a squaddie pay his AH bill, when times are rough.

Here's something else to consider: Maybe you don't realize it, but the squad tends to keep people flying, long after they might have moved to some other game. The camaraderie and esprit d' corps is stronger than the lure of the particular game for many of us. What does that mean for you? It means cash flow from people who would otherwise have long since canceled their accounts, but for their squad mates.

So, HT, my unsolicited (and probably unwelcome) advice to you is:

Make all the changes to the game you feel you need to make, but don't screw with the squads. Squads are your dinner table, and you don't want to crap where you eat.

This is said in all sincerity, for the health of AH and on behalf of my squad. We will move as a group if we have to, to keep our squad and our extended circle of friends intact. We've done it before, and we'll do it again if we have no other options. Please don't put us in that position.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #554 on: December 13, 2006, 02:33:12 PM »
Only a couple of "squads" have had issues all along Stiletto.   98% of the squads easily have the opportunity to fly together, or against each other.
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