Is the F4U Series The Fastest Divers Now?

[Stoney74]

As a guy that flies the Jug a lot, I thought it boasted the best dive acceleration in the game.  I got run down twice by F4U-1A's today and was just wondering if anyone had some data?

And before anyones suggests it, both aircraft had relatively equal amounts of smash as I did.

[bozon]

The jug is not an ecceptional diver, unless speeds get really high. That's how it works in the game at least. It never was the fastest diver, nor even second fastest. If this is correct historically, I cannot tell.

[Saxman]

Not sure Stoney, but I've noticed that even with throttle idling and gear out the Corsairs can easily accelerate to over 450mph in a full vertical dive. Full power WEP dives off the air-speed indicator are also now possible. Given enough room to start with the F4Us WILL now out-dive the La-7

Also consider that while weight aids overall dive speed, dive acceleration is still largely ruled by aerodynamics and the F4U has a number of features that make her a bit cleaner (the gull wings reduce drag, and there's a lot less fuselage than for the deep-bellied Jug).

[humble]

Hey Stoney...

Dont know if you were referring to the little scrum you had with MtnMan and I last night or not. In the instance with me it was a combination of circumstances. If I recall it correctly you actually came in with a bit of E but were both clearing me off 1 jug while also trying to prevent me from getting back to MT. At some point you made a pretty aggresive 270 degree or so hi G turn. It was more a case of the jug scrubbing E vs what I did...when I rolled over into that turn I think we had a bigger E differential then u thought. From what I can tell the hog eats up the D25 in this type of scenario. It's faster overall and its acceleration at moderate and high speed is better. I'll check and see if I have film on it so you can see what I'm talking about.. I've found the hog chases down ponies and jugs with no problem in this scenario...more a case of the hog bleeding less E since its a bit better turner...If I put the hog in lag and match ROT I come out with better relative E state....if the con breaks off I can overtake...if he tightens up I can take the nose out of plane and convert to lead pretty easily.

Here's the clip

stoney

The two turns I'm talking about are easy to see....1st one your pulling on MtnMan...second you pull a pretty high G diving turn during evasive and I just roll over on you. Obviously your trying to clear your squaddie and give up any advantage you had to do so....I actually have that whole little fight from beginning if you want it.

[Stoney74]

Humble, thanks for the info and the film.  That will give me a little something to chew on.  That was the 2nd time it happened, so I guess my "somewhat co-e" hypothesis was wrong.

I'll see if I can't set up a more "scientific" analysis...

[Saxman]

That's something else, the F4U's E state can be VERY deceptive.

[gripen]

There is plenty of war time comparisons on the early F4U in the wwiiaircraftperformance.org.

gripen

[Stoney74]

Ok, did a not so scientific comparison today.

Starting at 8,000 feet over water, with both aircraft making 200 mph IAS.  Both aircraft set up with 25% fuel at 0 fuel burn.  Push over to an approximate -45 degree AoA [shift-x] and went full throttle simultaneously.  Pulled out right at the deck.  Repeated both aircraft two times each.

P-47D11 took 22 seconds to reach the deck at approximately 500 mph IAS at pullout.

F4U-1A took 24 seconds to reach the deck at approximately 475 IAS at pullout.

Definitely room for some error in my test, as the dive angle was approximate using the bottom canopy rail against the horizon as a judge.  Starting speeds and altitudes were the same though.  Times are probably accurate to within +/- 1 second.

For whatever its worth...

[bozon]

Originally posted by Stoney74
Definitely room for some error in my test, as the dive angle was approximate using the bottom canopy rail against the horizon as a judge.  

That may not be the same dive angle which will have a significant effect on the results. I'd try starting at given speed level flight, then pushing stick forward and holding 0-G on the gauge. There will be a some component of level acceleration, but that's the simplest test I can think of, as at 0-G you are basically a stone with a propeller.

[humble]

I dont think I'd worry to much about the specific numbers....I dont feel that anyone can judge E state within that small window consistantly. The clip is from a larger overall film. The real "problem" here is simply that the jug is a tough bird to fly well. Earlier during the fight the "flight integrity" broke down. Then the "element" integrity went....so even though you had a 1 on 4 at that time things had fractured a bit. Earlier on I dinged up on of the P-47's and he had to bolt for the deck....then MtnMan arrived and effectively you had a 3 on 2 but no cohesion.

At the time of the clip I'm moving to support MM....

You can here my comments on how tough you guys were do engage and his reply. Individually I think each pilot in your flight flew "smart"....learning to fly 2 let alone 4 guys "smart" togeather is tough to do. Circumstances put you in a position you needed to "fly stupid" to put pressure on the other hog. Your also in a situation where your dealing with two season sticks who both are "hog expertian" to a some degree and have decent teamwork. You can hear my comment from 1.5 or more away that "you" are not going to get away. So I can see your manuevering in such away your burning E and mentally I'm already "waiting on you" to make your move. MM and I are in sync and I dont have any split focus or need to support him. Once you actually go defensive I'm well set. You actually make a real good defense mid "chase" but have already taken hits....personally I'd have gone all angles looking to get me out of sync.....then dive out....as it worked out I had bled less E then you and was able to reaquire you pretty seemlessly.

In my mind I'd have bounced me and gone hi while instructing the wing to dive back toward me....bringing MM and the wing under Me. He had to be working back to you while you were zeroing in on me right before the clip starts. That way your over me....I'm over MM...he's over/benind your wind. You blow thru me and clear him and he reverses into me. I clear you but cant reverse into your wing (well I probably would:))....so in theory....we're booming out of dodge and your climbing both elements reform and we go back at it....

[1K3]

Is the F4U Series The Fastest Divers Now?


Nah, it's a tie between the P-47s and Fw 190s:)

[OOZ662]

Me-163 from 72k outdives all you n00bs.

[Saxman]

I actually managed to make an F4U compress tonight. I mean full-on nose-tuck compression.