Tracer Advantages

[Ball]

Originally posted by Denholm
if it "explodes" inside a gas tank, you think it wouldn't have caused fire?

noes.

[Denholm]

Isn't a charge required to offset an explosion? Or are were we using LOX in WWII?

[OOZ662]

Excuse me if I missed someone already saying this, but I skipped 5/6ths of this thread.

The MythBusters did a test to see if a tracer round would ignite a fuel tank more often than a non-tracer round. They repeated the test many times and neither round set the tank ablaze.

That either shows their test was incorrect or that tracers don't have much of an effect on the incendiary quality of a round.

[MWL]

Greetings,

  I have not personnally tested it, but tracer is designed to let you know where you are shooting.

  Incendiary is designed to cause what you are shooting at to catch on fire.

  That is not to say the Tracer can't cause fires, as it is buring and will set things of fire - like grass on the range.  Lawd know I have put out enough range fires.

Regards,

[Denholm]

Let me try to elaborate on my request. I am wishing that tracers have a higher possibility of catching a fuel tank on fire. It doesn't happen all the time. But it doesn't happen at all with a non-tracer round. Lead / copper striking steel / metal does NOT spark. A tracer round has a small trail of fire following the round, it doesn't always ignite a tank, but it has higher chances of igniting a tank than a round that doesn't spark.

[Ghosth]

Denholm your correct, copper/brass over lead won't spark.

Steel core AP rounds however WILL spark if they hit something hard enough.

But until HT decides to get around to addressing ammo types we are stuck with what we have.

Which is a round which has some of the properties of a AP or API, and some of the properties of a HE. I don't know if we'll ever be able to set the ammo load we want. And if we do chances are we'll more often than not have the wrong ammo load selected for what we want.

[scottydawg]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Denholm your correct, copper/brass over lead won't spark.

Steel core AP rounds however WILL spark if they hit something hard enough.

But until HT decides to get around to addressing ammo types we are stuck with what we have.

Which is a round which has some of the properties of a AP or API, and some of the properties of a HE. I don't know if we'll ever be able to set the ammo load we want. And if we do chances are we'll more often than not have the wrong ammo load selected for what we want.

I'm not real sure I want THAT much realism... I mean, I can be a pedant when the mood strikes me, but how much realism is too much?  I have a hard enough time remembering what kind of ballistics go with which gun already.

[Denholm]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Steel core AP rounds however WILL spark if they hit something hard enough.

That I can believe, because steel WILL spark. And for the rest of you still doubting me, take this as an example.

Find a piece of steel (any kind of size you wish), then take a pencil and strike the tip of the lead pencil diagonally upon the steel. The lead simply will not spark, same it would be with lead bullets.

[Golfer]

Well graphite is used as a lubricant.  I can't really see anything that can be used to lubricate and reduce friction causing a spark.  In fairness graphite is basically carbon.  Coal is basically carbon.  The difference is graphite is a beyooootch to get cookin' compared to coal.

That's what's in the pencil...not actual lead.

[Krusty]

Remember.... You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.


Anyways, no full gas tank will ever explode. Gas itself does not explode, the air vapor heavy with gas fumes will. If you have a half full tank or an empty tank, you might get an explosion with an incendiary round. Otherwise, you may just puncture it, have the gas leak out, then be set afire AFTER leaking out (on hot radiators, more bullets causing sparks, electrical wires, etc).

Tracer bullets are not incendiary. There were different chemicals used to make the bullets glow different colors (reds vs greens etc). The bullet wasn't "on fire", but rather the heat from the firing process makes the material coated over the bullet glow. This gives you the smoke dust trail and the glow so you can track the motion of the bullet.

I'm pretty sure the temperature of a tracer is not much more than any other massive chunk of lead and steel traveling many times the speed of sound, after being ejected out of a confined tube with a powerful fiery explosion.

As for US planes, most of them used API throughout the war. Better chance of igniting flamable materials.

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Golfer
Well graphite is used as a lubricant.  I can't really see anything that can be used to lubricate and reduce friction causing a spark.  In fairness graphite is basically carbon.  Coal is basically carbon.  The difference is graphite is a beyooootch to get cookin' compared to coal.

That's what's in the pencil...not actual lead.

What Golfer said. So I guess the jamming the old #2 against steel test is not a valid test as some proclaim.

[Denholm]

Originally posted by Krusty
Anyways, no full gas tank will ever explode. Gas itself does not explode, the air vapor heavy with gas fumes will.

Krusty, the only reason that the fuel would explode is because it is concealed within a tank where there is no means to expand. So when the gasoline ignites in a tank it causes pressure to rise, considering that a tank does not have enough room to contain this pressure, the tank blows its top and the flaming vapors escape which are the actual explosion.

Also, considering what Golfer said, I do believe that the "pencil" test is not valid. Yet one more thing krusty. Believing a friend who has shot guns for 34 years now, I would trust him when he says, "Yes, tracers have a slight amount of fire trailing the bullet."

[OOZ662]

Originally posted by Denholm
I would trust him when he says, "Yes, tracers have a slight amount of fire trailing the bullet."

Yes, trailing the bullet. But that doesn't mean it has to have any effect on the impact of the round.

[Denholm]

Of course it doesn't have any effect on the impact of the round. Yet the fact is that even the slightest trace of fire can ignite fuel.

[OOZ662]

The slighter the fire, the slighter the chance it'll ignite something, as well. If this were modeled, the difference of the rounds wouldn't be notable. You may actully see less fires due to how the damage model works.