A P38G driver's favorite place to be....

[SteveBailey]

At the same time the 38 only has to rotate 90 degrees. The Spit gives up valuable seconds and the P-38 will be on his six coming out of the break.

You're wrong. The 38 is pointing off to the right.  This means the 38 has to rotate and  pull the nose around some, not just rotate, if the spit goes left.  The latter will give the spit valuable time to separate or get clear of a  gun solution.  You are simply wrong.

[Guppy35]

Well if you guys want to see how it played out and all we did wrong.  Have at it

I was flying on my late son's account, on one of those nights where I wasn't feeling like being sociable, hence the different ID.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1166635829_pitzerghstridr.ahf

[humble]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I agree that the Spit has gotten himself into trouble but I have to totally disagree with those who say that a left break is his only way out.

If the Spit breaks left he has to reverse his current rotation and come back ~135 degrees to do so.  At the same time the 38 only has to rotate 90 degrees.  The Spit gives up valuable seconds and the P-38 will be on his six coming out of the break.

That being the case the Spit has to continue his current rotation and, as I've said, if he breaks across the P-38s nose and survives the snapshot will have gained both time (as the P-38 now has to complete another 180 degrees of rotation in order to break in the same direction) and the advantage of loss of visibility by the P-38.

Like I said the Spits in trouble and surviving the snapshot is a big if but unless he's got enough E to extend he doesn't have any other good options.

The problem here is that it takes the spit to much time flying in front of guppy going left to right...if he goes left he's putting guppy outside his turn ... he's in a world of hurt...but can make a play. As it sits (havent watched clip yet)) I'd guess guppys got a nice shot set up...

[humble]

Like I said above its a drive by...not much I could see spit could do to avoid it.

I clipped about 15-20 sec from fight earlier....this is basically flat scissors that leads to spit "escaping" out the back door. This is basically what I was talking about...if he continues his break left instead of reversing and then initiates flat scissors he can do same as clip again....rolling scissors just gonna get him killed...again.

film clip

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DEMONSLAYER
that spit should have gone up because he has more speed then guppy by the time guppy finishes his roll he wont have any speed there for the spit should easily rope him come down and make a shot.

with only a +4mph IAS advantage the Spitfire is not going to able to use the vertical against the P-38G and expect to survive let alone rope the Lightning.


ack-ack

[BaldEagl]

From that picture the Spit has no options.  He's dead.

I haven't seen the clip.  I'm at work and won't get a chance until late night at least.

Looking back at the first picture though, not only did the P-38 only have to rotate 90 degrees to the Spits 135 degrees, he also didn't have to reverse his rotation which the Spit would have had to do in a left break making a left break option even worse for the Spit.  

You are corrrect however that the Spit would have been outside the 38's turn radius.  That actually makes the situation worse for the Spit as the 38 gains a lead solution.

Like I've said, the Spit's only hope if he couldn't extend is just what we see in this last picture.  He has to break across the 38's nose and pray.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
From that picture the Spit has no options.  He's dead.

he also didn't have to reverse his rotation which the Spit would have had to do in a left break making a left break option even worse for the Spit.
Like I've said, the Spit's only hope if he couldn't extend is just what we see in this last picture.  He has to break across the 38's nose and pray.

 
 To me and some others left and down in hopes of getting even a little separation is the spit's only hope.( a slim one).  

At the risk of sounding harsh, maybe that's why your fighter numbers(no, not just your K/d) are what they are.  You aren't seeing the same things  other people are.  You seem so unwilling to change so go ahead and keep getting 1 kill per sortie at 3-4 an hour... experten.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
keep getting 1 kill per sortie at 3-4 an hour... experten.

That's mostly because I'd rather spend my time looking for a good one on one or challenging myself in an outnumbered situation than joining the hoard.

It's also because I usually fly a Spit and the ammo load-out isn't exactly generous.

In defensive situations I also take off one field back so I arrive at the same alt as the attackers rather than waiting to be picked from above which also adds extra flight time.

If I joined the hoards and vulched or cherry-picked I'd have better numbers.  I just don't find that to be that entertaining.

I've never claimed to be an expert.  I gave my take on the situation and you started with the insults.  I've remained calm and continued to try to explain my rationalle.  It's really OK if we disagree.  Thats all it is, a disagreement.  

Actually, it's really hard to make any sort of judgement from a single still picture.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
At the risk of sounding harsh, maybe that's why your fighter numbers(no, not just your K/d) are what they are.  You aren't seeing the same things  other people are.  You seem so unwilling to change so go ahead and keep getting 1 kill per sortie at 3-4 an hour... experten.

They were seeing otherwise because Guppy35 said they were in "rolling" scissors which would mean they were rolling in the same direction ie "to the right", judging by the spit position.
In that case tightening turn to the right and up would be the right way to reversal.
In any case, under assumption of equal skill, spit should never end with P-38 on it's tail.
Opinions were based on information provided and situation interpreted as such, so I don't see why to bellitle others for see it differently.
Keep in mind that we all cannot be as skilled as you are, so forgive us.

[SteveBailey]

You're right, Eagl.  To each his own.

I apologize.

[BaldEagl]

Accepted

[SteveBailey]

Thank you, you are very gracious.  Now, please proceed to Lord Fletcher's and bill me for the first round or two.

[BaldEagl]

Accepted but only if you'll meet me there to share those first couple of rounds.  The next couple are on me.

[SteveBailey]

I'd love to.  I'm a displaced Edina boy living in AZ.  I miss  MN

[Golfer]