Author Topic: Aces High....who is the customer?  (Read 1138 times)

Offline Badger

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
      • Military Surplus Collectors Forums
Aces High....who is the customer?
« on: May 14, 2000, 12:00:00 PM »
Hello everyone....

I have tried to keep my personal noise down on the AH BSS and contribute only when I think I can add some other perspective.  Unfortunately the last time I posted here, someone from AGW felt obliged to drag it over there, surgically extract some message information out of context, added some personal remarks to pour gasoline on something that was intended as commentary for this community only.  So, it would be appreciated if any lurkers who would like to participate in the discussion, would please add their comments to this thread to avoid revisionist views of history elsewhere.  Thanks.

I have read with great interest weazel's thread "Stick a fork in me!" and also hangtime's "Range icons, do we need 'em?".

I have to say, I love you guys, but in my opinion the responses in those threads from most, simply miss the crux of the issue.  Stand back, get outside the box and as Edward De Bono would say, think laterally to understand what Aces High is all about.  It is first and foremost a business, the ONLY purpose of which is to create wealth for its shareholders as well as a generate a potential exit strategy for them.  Having said that, then how is it possibly going to accomplish that task by eliminating icons and striving to create an arena environment that plays to only a very small market segment.  A high realism historically accurate flight simulation is doable.  I would suspect that of any team in this industry with the programming and research experience to accomplish this type of simulation, it would be the combination of Hitech and Pyro.  However, I believe if they went down that road, HiTech Creations would slowly bleed (cash) to its fiscal death, either by not getting enough revenue into the company in early stages, or once at a critical mass, attrition through cancellations below what is needed to sustain the required infrastructure.

Ironically, that's exactly what's happening to iEN.  They just published their updated (SEC form 10QSB) financials and I was actually incorrect and overly optimistic about their "cash burn" in a previous post.  They started January 1st, 2000 with a little over $3 million in the bank.  I calculated their burn at about $177,000 per month when in fact, as of March 31st, 2000, they only had $1,921,000 left on-hand.  A real burn of over a million dollars in the first quarter (3 months), or almost $333,000 per month.  Their on-line "Pay for Play Revenue" is down $44,000 over the comparable quarter for last year, which indicates that WB's players in general are using the game less.  While all of this is happening, they continue to bicker amongst themselves and get into issues about realism on development forums that are never going to make iEN viable, as there are not enough hard core players to make a business out of it anyway.  This especially applies to a flat rate model which is obviously in the cards for them down the road someplace.  Perhaps their recent ACA changes are a sign of things to come.

Now you're saying, get to the point.  Quite simply, you guys need to refocus your energy and start supplying HTC with objective, non emotional marketing feedback.  Pretend you OWN Hitech's business, therefore, make suggestions on this BBS to accomplish one thing, that is a business model and definition of what the game environment in Aces High should look like, that maximizes revenue through new player sign-ups, as well as keeps current members from canceling their accounts.  They are the ONLY things that HTC should be designing, programming and implementing from a business perspective if they intend on surviving the onslaught of on-line multiplayer environments such as WWII On-line.  Imagine that you are at 4,000 members right now, but need 8,000 in 6-12 months, so how do you get to there from here?

Guess what?  Those suggestions you make, in many cases will probably go against the grain of the avid high realism, historical arena, no icon type of guys like myself.  So, how can we have it all?  How can HTC appeal to all of the various demographics of potential players out there on the Internet to make a real business out of an on-line flight simulation like Aces High?  Is it possible, or are companies like HTC simply rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic like iEN, as they sail towards the inevitable financial iceberg?

I believe there are at least three types of communities on here.  The "quake birds", kill them all and let God sort them out bunch is one.  Weazel loves them in their F4Uc's.    Next there's the absolute "newbie", who doesn't even understand how to start the engine and we all see a lot of those new guys continually logging onto the MA, driving joemud crazy with their naive ditching.    These poor guys get so frustrated about the current complexity, they probably never come back after a few sessions and most certainly, don't sign-up after two weeks.  I spoke to one off-line the other day who was particularly frustrated.  He came from something called AW III relaxed arena and wanted the same thing here.  He said it was just too complicated for him and he probably wouldn't be back unless AH offered something similar and probably cheaper.  I don't know anything about the environment he spoke of, except it sounded very arcade like.  Finally, there's the hard core bunch like me, who say lets model the grain weights of individual ammunition types and use no icons.  Can these groups coexist in one arena?  Good question, I'd like to hear your feedback.

Before some of you run off and say let's do what iEN has done, such as setup an RR (Relaxed Realism), HA (Historical Arena) and an ACA (an arcade like air starts Air Combat Arena) to appeal to everyone's tastes, you have to ask yourself, has it worked for iEN?  Look at their financial numbers, then tell me why it hasn't solved their problem of critical mass, plus with the exception of the ACA, they are still charging $1.99 per hour for all of the other arenas. By the way, iEN just modified the ACA to include squads and field captures, permit players to select the following aircraft, Fw 190A-8, Bf 109G-6, Spitfire IXe, P-51D, P-38L, B-25J, Ju52, Ju 88A-4, rotating terrain and the enabled ground starts, all for $9.95 per month.  Obviously an attempt to further expand the less than hard core gamer crowd, as well as keep it interesting for their current ACA sign-ups so they don't cancel accounts because they're burnt out or bored with a lack of newness and change.  Anyone think they might be just "robbing Peter to pay Paul" and not really gaining new sign-ups?

I realize that it's tough to view AH from any perspective other than what we personally want it to be, in order to meet our individual needs.  Unfortunately, it must be a solid business first, designed to provide gaming entertainment on-line to the widest possible demographic of people, who are willing to pay $29.95 per month.  If we don't seriously try to rationalize this traditional marketing dilemma of needing to appeal to the special interest groups, as well as the widest market base, we all could be looking for a different venue this time next year.

Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-14-2000).]

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8258
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2000, 12:17:00 PM »
Badger,

There are also people like me who fall into all three of those player catagories depending on how I feel that day and how tired I am after work.

I think the real answer will be multiple arena's with different configurations.  Or they can always start up a H2H server and configure it how ever they want.  However, I don't think ther real issue will prove to be allowing them to fly like they want.  I think it will come down to them wanting to force others to fly the way they want. (i.e. the MA)  

Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2000, 12:40:00 PM »
A well stated position Badger...as a business owner I understand your perspective completely. Only area I'm not sure I agree on is the effect of multiple arena's on user base. It actas as a market segmentation to offset the negatives you stated.

I do believe that the pricing model alone has helped vs AW and WB. I think that various arena's are a good idea...eventually...right now the "threat" on the horizon is ww2 online...but i feel that the "flight-sim" community will remain just that...a flight sim community. "Total scope" games will be inevitable but till I see one in action I've got to believe that they will lack somewhat in each area with regard to depth.

I do have one question for the powers that be...would it be possible to model large scale ground combat generically...that is AI controlled (or possibly player controlled) such that air power decides the conflict's locally and stratigically. What I imagine is a sytem where airpower functions as it really did...deciding the ground war. You couldnt capture a field the way we do...you'd have to crack there initial defense (B-26)...hurt there staging/supply (B-17) hammer there armored counterstrike (tiffie) cut the rail and road lines to delay the deployment of the division reserves.  Now ww2 will do this with a lot of players...to me, if you have a simple fundemental AE...and/or limited player control...it lets the guys in the air decide the war on the ground and gives a real purpose to each mission/plane type...just an idea...i'm sure it would be complicated...but is it a possibility?

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Torque

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2000, 12:42:00 PM »
Dach reading your lengthy post always always taxes my limited intellect. Sum it all up all I see are ppl complaining that the 9-month-old baby is still crapp’n in it’s diapers. More or less it’s just bruised egos. The true fighter rises above he does not blame the tools he is forced to work with.

[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 05-14-2000).]

Offline JoeMud

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2000, 02:06:00 PM »
Humm quake-brids...thought we left them behind after we got 1.2...I was rong..gotta kill them.....newbies hummm..must die a slow and painfull death....Hard core simers like myself and all the other greats...ill let um get off the ground first  

btw Badger I was already crazy...he just made me mad :-P

Offline BigJim

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2000, 03:06:00 PM »
Bager, I think you will find that iEN did one thing with their multiple arena's that you failed to mention and I think is significant.  In order to maintain the hourly rate in their main arena they "hobbled" the aca arena with a poor flight model (even tho arcadish), I think some better stats might be obtained through the AW model of arena's where the flight model is "relaxed" but not ruined like iEN's
I think that a "relaxed realism" arena here would attact more revenue (I would not fly there but I think alot of newbies would).  As for the 1c etc etc... I think that Torque is right give it some time I think Dale and Doug and company will come up with viable solutions


Offline Sparks

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 804
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2000, 05:42:00 PM »
Interesting Badger .....
As a small business owner myself I know what you are saying but I think the key part of the discussion, and the first part of any business plan, is missing i.e. who is the target market and who are the competition.
I would imagine HT have it clearly in their minds but maybe it needs clarifying to the customers and maybe these type of discussions would be irrelavent.
 
As I see it there are two ways of targeting any sim:
1. As a game with realistic elements of varying degrees and as such offering a low level quick entry route for gamers. This is the way AW3, WB's etc have chosen to go and continue to attempt to attract the largest membership. There are however downsides to that in terms of the fickle nature of the customers and the need to try to keep them using low monthly fees - hence 9.95 a month.
 
2. As a full featured Flight simulation as close to reality as possible requiring the same level of effort in learning almost as flying a real airplane. Targeted at people who love aviation but who for whatever reason can't fly real aircraft but want to be as close to it as they can. For them it is not a mere game but another skill that's learnt and price is not the key issue.

I know which I think is the best market to target and I think the problems AW and WB's face at the moment show the problems with trying to attack a large volume market. When I look for customers I look for the ones I want, that I think I can tie in to become long term bread and butter, and then develop products to offer them at a price I can make money at. I think if you match your product to the target you chose then it generally works without nesessarily having to look for very high volume.

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9885
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2000, 05:52:00 PM »
Hey Badger... is there like a readers digest version of ur email I can pick up somewhere?

Or next time stick some nekkid chicks in the middle to keep us reading!


HaHa

  • Guest
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2000, 06:07:00 PM »
Suggestions that I think would make things more FUN and thus increase revenue:

1) Vehicles - vehicles are an excellent, excellent addition - a lot of people including myself have had a blast in them. When you are in a plane you miss a lot of the closeup, "my gosh that's beautiful" action. I have seen the most gorgeous scenes since I started ground pounding.. picture a b17 taking off from 300 yds .. zooming overhead.. my tracers laying into it's belly. Thus we need/must/gotta have   more vehicles like:

motorcycles
jeeps
artillery
rocket launchers
infantrymen* (can parachute out of planes)
more tanks* (sherman = faster, tiger = power)

2) A simple but FUN strategy system - the current system is good but it has no relevance. Attack country, reset country, doesn't affect anything longterm = frustration. Solution: make resets WORTHWHILE (see my previous thread on this topic)

3) Character development - this game isn't meant to be an RPG but man oh man are games that allow you to build a character addicting! It is so easy to add rank into this game.. With rank can come a simplistic strategy system = make rank worthwhile

4) Ships - you think vehicles are popular? wait until someone can take a capital ship out for a spin.. *drool*


Planes are fun but unfortunately 99% of the population cannot fly planes worth a damn in AH. So lets give those guys something to do.

funked

  • Guest
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2000, 06:42:00 PM »
I think the whining is overmodeled.

There are a bunch of things that I would like to see changed/added/improved.

But it's way too early to give up!

These guys have shown that they can do great things in a small period of time.

The game is still evolving.

If there were no major updates for two years, like other sims, then I might get antsy!

But we are not anywhere near that point.

HaHa

  • Guest
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2000, 11:01:00 PM »
Ah - so you are going to whine about changes in 2 years once the sim is huge and changes are quite costly ? It is far easier to change/fix a sim in the first development stages.

Offline weazel

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1471
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2000, 12:41:00 AM »
 I`m sure there are many issues I`m overlooking in this proposal,feel free to poke holes in it.    

   
Quote
I believe there are at least three types of communities on here. The "quake birds", kill them all and let God sort them out bunch is one

 The center of the map I put together should satify these players desires,the players in this section could fly all planes out of bases available inside the Furball section.

   
Quote
Finally, there's the hard core bunch like me, who say lets model the grain weights of individual ammunition types and use no icons. Can these groups coexist in one arena?

 The historical sections of the map would provide historically correct aircraft match-ups. I.E. in the north section (New Guinea) could have the F4U1D,F4U1C,Spit,P-38,etc vs Zero and George,and future Japanese planes. Players in this section could not fly into the southern (ETO) section where the planeset would be the traditional Axis vs Allied aircraft.

 I don`t know if it would be possible to code the game to prevent the mixing of the different areas,maybe an auto-destruct of any player violating forbidden airspace? As far as icons go I don`t know if its possible to have variable icon settings in the different areas.The bombers would have to be enabled for all 4 sections until the planeset is built up and the same for vehicles.

       
 



[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 05-15-2000).]

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »
 Outstanding Badger. I have to say I zero right in on your posts in order to read  some good logical and well spoken opinion that makes me think about these issues also.

 HiTech has already stated several times who it is they are aiming this sim at. He's also changed a few things around to automate some functions for new folks.  I hope HTC grows financially and is successful as it wil lead to a healthier communit and an ever improving sim for it's users.
 I think many of the requests here are singularly self serving in purpose and do not add anything to the whole. Then again many of these same request I am warm to and hope they can be implemented in AH as HTC grows. Perhaps we'll see these requests fulfilled as options deployable somewhere for some purpose in our future.
 
  -Westy

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27251
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2000, 08:14:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Torque:
More or less it’s just bruised egos. The true fighter rises above he does not blame the tools he is forced to work with.

[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 05-14-2000).]


Torq, 90% of your comments/posts are meant to piss people off, but alas, that's "Torq", right?

You are a lone wolfer, very good, I used to be too.  Some are mission based, historical flyers.  No bruised egos, just a different type of game play.

To sum up what Badger is saying, we need the SEA to be a historical arena,or a separate historical arena.

HTC may be worried that this will drain the Main, but I believe it will increase head-count in AH.

Good luck Badger, at least we, as players, are fortunate enough to have  options.


Offline Swager

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1352
Aces High....who is the customer?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2000, 11:57:00 AM »
I will fly where my squadron flys! That is where I have my most fun.  If not around I'll look where I can do the most good.

It all fun to me.

Last night I drove a tank and a M16. Killed a P-38 with a tank round!  hehe!!

Flew a Goon, Me109, P-51, and a B-26!

Had fun with each sortie!

The other night we (JG2) were making a heavy P-38 attack on Rook HQ while there was a distraction raid on A8.  Eight low heavy P-38s no higher than 200 feet heading towards HQ.  Up and down over the terrain. No room for auto here!!  This was sooooo cool!

To a point, the sim is what ya make it.  Just a few pilots can create a small scenario in the Main.  Maybe take 3 to 5 heavy fighters and raid a fuel depot or city.  See if ya can make it! If ya do, drop your ordanace and pop up high deep in enemy territory, and come in the back door!  

What about flying 2-3 B-26s low, with a 47 in tow, and capture a vehicle field way behind enemy lines.  Stir up that bee's nest!  Sure ya may get caught!  Just think of the confusion you'll cause!!  

Remember, to just have fun!!
Rock:  Ya see that Ensign, lighting the cigarette?
Powell: Yes Rock.
Rock: Well that's where I got it, he's my son.
Powell: Really Rock, well I'd like to meet him.
Rock:  No ya wouldn't.