good knife sharpener?

[lasersailor184]

Yup, I've never had luck with sharpening serrated knives.  But then again, I don't use serrated knives.  They tear what they are cutting.  If you're any good with a whetstone, and most men should be, you won't ever need to use a serrated knife.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yup, I've never had luck with sharpening serrated knives.  But then again, I don't use serrated knives.  They tear what they are cutting.  If you're any good with a whetstone, and most men should be, you won't ever need to use a serrated knife.

I'll drink with you to that one

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dissagree with Lasersailer


Sharpening Steels work great provided the knife isnt  duller then a butter knife to begin with.

and the DO actually sharpen and not simply bend edges back in place



If the knife is super dull already I'd start with a stone and finish it to a fine edge with a steel just as CpMorgan discribes.

About the only thing I find they dont work real well for is pocket style buck knifes and such. They are simply too small and your better off with a very fine stone


But for Kitchen style carving knives they work great

Has for me for the last 35 years anyway

I can consistantly give you Deli thin sliced meat sharpening them that way.
Which is why I always get to carve and slice whatever gets cooked at family gatherings LOL

Sharp enough for ya?

The true sign of a master sharpener is patches of hair missing.  One of the easiest ways to test how sharp your knives are is to test how effortlessly they can shave hair.  

Deli thin slicing is easy to obtain.  I can get there by freehand on the 4 dollar Sears whetstone I purchased.  But unless you use my buffing trick, you really won't extend into the "Holy **** that's sharp" category.

Some people have misused steel so much that they began to make sharpeners out of them.  But that doesn't change how they should be used and how they are best used.  Steel is for maintaining sharpness, not creating it.


But at least you're drinking good beer.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The true sign of a master sharpener is patches of hair missing.  One of the easiest ways to test how sharp your knives are is to test how effortlessly they can shave hair.  

Deli thin slicing is easy to obtain.  I can get there by freehand on the 4 dollar Sears whetstone I purchased.  But unless you use my buffing trick, you really won't extend into the "Holy **** that's sharp" category.

Some people have misused steel so much that they began to make sharpeners out of them.  But that doesn't change how they should be used and how they are best used.  Steel is for maintaining sharpness, not creating it.


But at least you're drinking good beer.

Tell ya what.
C'mere and I''ll shave ya bald with my knives

[lasersailor184]

That's ok, I've already mangled myself with knives enough for one night.  Ironically, I'm bleeding from 3 spots in one toe.

Not seriously, but it's a pain in the bellybutton trying to not bleed on everything.

[Maverick]

Don't sharpen your knives in your bellybutton with your toes and it shouldn't be a problem.

[Elfie]

Years ago I worked in a slaughter house (Farmland Foods) and we used butchers steels to maintain the sharpness of our knives. Once I got the hang of it, I could use the same knife for 10 hours straight.

During the standard use of a knife, especially one with an extremely sharp edge, the edge point can drift or start to curl to one side or the other. The steel simply pushes the edge point back on center. To use it, lightly go over the edge pulling away from the edge. LIGHTLY.

Never go towards the edge. If you even have a remotely sharp edge, the edge will bite into the steel, and either break or dull.

In my experience, that is incorrect. We were taught at farmland to go towards the edge, not away from it. It's all in the angle of the blade in relation to the steel. And that angle MUST remain constant each time you use the steel.

[CpMorgan]

Originally posted by lasersailor184


It's a misnomer, but your standard kitchen steel:

IS NOT FOR SHARPENING.  During the standard use of a knife, especially one with an extremely sharp edge, the edge point can drift or start to curl to one side or the other.  The steel simply pushes the edge point back on center.  To use it, lightly go over the edge pulling away from the edge.  LIGHTLY.

Never go towards the edge.  If you even have a remotely sharp edge, the edge will bite into the steel, and either break or dull.

Lasersailor184 is correct here. If you re-read my post, I never said the steel was for sharpening. It is for "finishing the edge to a razor sharpness". In actuality, it IS straightening the edge on a microscopic level. Whet stones are fine for taking out rough gouges or imperfections in the edge. But to obtain an edge that is "razor sharp" and will STAY razor sharp you must use a steel as a finishing proceedure. If you examine the edge under a microscope, you will see tiny waves in the edge that contribute to the lack of sharpness. To prove it to yourself, take a realtively sharp blade and LIGHTLY drag it across your fingernail. You will feel sections that drag and sections that slip. The sections that are "slipping" haven't been sharpened correctly or are "rolled over". The sharpening steel is used to "fine tune" the edge so it is sharp all the way across. Once you have this edge perfected, then a daily application of a steel will maintain the edge razor sharp. If the edge gets damaged or dinged, you are going to have to start over with the stones as before.
But saying that, Elfie isn't wrong either. Daily maintenance of a working blade is important. Once the edge is sharpened to a keen edge, it will maintain it's edge unless it encounters an object that destroys the "fine tune" (i.e. bone, grisle) Usually a few swipes with a steel will alighn the edge back to it's original position. I know it all sounds kinda unusual, but if you've ever seen the edge of a sharp knife under a microscope, you will see what I'm referring to. Combat teaches you SO many interesting things.

[stantond]

Originally posted by Brenjen
Get a Lansky knife sharpening kit with the diamond stones. It will not only put a razor edge on a knife, it will put an edge that looks better than the factory edge.

The Lansky (and Gatco) operate on the same priciple as the edgepro.  The difference is in the length of blade which can be sharpened.  The former are great for pocket knives and blades 5" or less, but for an 8" chef's knife repositioning is required.  

Not that you can't use one (I have), but you sharpen the knife differently each time because of having to reposition the guide.  Also, once you have a portion 'razor sharp', its not hard to cut yourself tinkering with moving that guide.  The edgepro's claim to fame, imo, is that it can sharpen an eight or 10 inch kitchen knife without repositioning.  Be nice if they made something like that for swords.

As a kid I bought a Lo-Ray sharpener at a gun show for pocket knives.  It's the same as a Lansky or Gatco but has lasted over 30 years.  I think Lansky bought out Lo-Ray, or the patent expired.  I've given the Lansky sharpener kits for xmas before, which I though was a very nice gift.

As a bit of trivia, having a knife 'razor sharp' is a common term, but most knives are not as sharp as a razor.  I guess the the idea of shaving the hairs on your arm is where that description comes from.  A razor, on the other hand can cut a free hair by touching it to the blade.  A sharp razor can cut a free thin hair from your head.  I found this out when learning to sharpen and shave with a straight razor.

The idea behind using a steel, or the ceramic crock sticks is to reposition the edge, much like stropping a straight razor.  Neither device changes the edge profile or removes much metal (if any).  In fact, a leather strop could be used for the same purpose except it's not so convenient around the kitchen and takes slightly more skill to keep from cutting it to pieces.  Also, the knife is drawn on the leather away from the edge for obvious reasons.

Part of the degree of sharpness, and how long it stays sharp, is the degree of edge finish smoothness.  Buffing and polishing is one way to get an edge to last longer.  A straight razor has an extremely high degree of smoothness (< 1 micron) while a kitchen knife may be 20-200 microns.  A sharp smooth edge will remain sharp longer and can easily be 'touched up', but it's also easier to damage the edge.  That's where knowing how to use the knife is important to not damage the edge.

As an aside, something like a hatchet or an axe which is normally sharpened with a file will stay sharp longer if the edge is smooth and polished.  That's typically not done, but I've used a Lansky sharpener thru the finest stone on a hatchet with good results.   However, the less expensive hand tools generally have soft steel and dull quickly.  

One critical part of knife sharpening not mentioned is the type of steel used.  A steel with Rockwell hardness C scale (Rc) less than 40 will not hold an edge long.  However, it will be easy to sharpen.  Personally, I don't keep knives made of soft steel because they constantly require resharpening.


Regards,

Malta

[lazs2]

For getting the angle back on abused or really dull knives I use a whetstone..  I do it a little different in that I hold the knife fixed and move the stone.

For everything else...   Marbles makes a tiny little handheld sharpener that is nothing more than two ceramic pieces at the correct angle.   the whole thing is no more than 4" long by about an inch high.   Pull the blade through it a few times and it is sharp..  dull knives or very tough steel may take as many as 10 passes but it does the job every time.

cost is about $25... I got one for all my relatives and girlfriends who seem to have me sharpen their knives whenever I am there anyway.

Oh yeah... it really makes no difference how big the knife is with the Marbles since you are drawing the knife through it..

lazs

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Elfie
In my experience, that is incorrect. We were taught at farmland to go towards the edge, not away from it. It's all in the angle of the blade in relation to the steel. And that angle MUST remain constant each time you use the steel.

The problem is that if you move towards the edge, the edge can bite into the steel.  Knife steel is harder then the rods.  When it bites, it nearly always breaks, bends or chips.




But I seriously implore all of you to try the buffing trick of mine.  Everyone thinks that their knives are sharp, but just try this trick.  It'll take your knives to a whole nother level.

[rabbidrabbit]

What I'm looking for is something that can go in the kitchen next to the knifes.  I have a selection of higher end knifes and need something beyond the steel.  I could use a stone but the wife would just mess up the edges.  She would also not use sticks so what about this?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BTPTFG/ref=pd_kar_gw_1/105-4344613-4684465

[stantond]

Used one.  It didn't work very well.  In fact, I bought one for my mother.  It now sits in a cabinet (wasn't cheap either).  Others may have had better luck, but I was disappointed.

Crock sticks and a hardware store sharpening stone with a handle (see link) seem to work ok where low carbon kitchen knives are used with plastic cutting boards.  

http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/67-419-sharpening-stones/kitchen-sharpening-stone-614472.aspx

Regards,

Malta

[Shamus]

Idiot proof and does a good job.

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=661128

shamus

[lasersailor184]

Nothing is idiot proof when it comes to the handling of knives.