AXIS AAR Ketsu-Go Frame 01

[Viper61]

The AXIS orders from the CM's were VERY clear and I understood them completely and without any questions in my mind.

  I was to defend my assigned targets.  The FSO rules state I must defend my assigned targets for the first 60 minutes (Min.).  The AXIS side did just that.  Just because your mission is defense DOES NOT LIMIT YOU FROM OFFENSIVE OPERATIONS.

  I was instructed by the CM AXIS Orders to fly NO BOMBERS and only fighters.  The AXIS side did just that.  I used all 4 IJN AC that I was assigned at the squad or better level.  Check the TOD log.

The AXIS orders DID NOT SAY the following:

  CAN NOT USE ORDANANCE.
  CAN NOT ATTACK ENEMY CV's

The points for the frame were very clear.  The stated very clearly that:

  DD's are worth 50 points
  CA's are worth 100 points
  CV's are worth 200 points
  Ground targets 200 points
  Locomotives 20 points
  Rail Cars 10 points

The points for the frame DO NOT SAY the following:

  IJN "ONLY"
  ALLIED "ONLY"
  ALLIED SHIPS ARE NOT WORTH ANY POINTS.

The FSO events are not about setting up a side to lose or win.  They are about setting up a scenario (Histroical events).  Splitting up the sides proportationally.  Allowing the CIC's to plan and control the fight while staying within the rules of the FSO.

I exacuted my missions as assigned.

I maximized my combat power at the ALLIED weak points.

I fought the fight on my terms not the ALLIED terms.

I attacked because the ALLIED side didnt expect it.

The ALLIED side expected a "turkey shoot" I didnt give it to them.

The ALLIED side did not defend their CV's (10 planes is not a defense for 7 CV's) so I attacked this weak point.

The ALLIED CIC choose to use Airforce AC with no bases in which to land and rearm in time for follow on missions, this limited his numbers in the air late in the game.  NOT THE AXIS FAULT.

The AXIS side had an simple plan with excellent command and control through out the fight not thanks to me but the expertise of the AXIS side CO's.

I followed the rules of the FSO to the letter in my planning and exacution orders.


To the CM's:

  Award the points fairly and to the FSO rules.  If not then these events will appear to be "canned" and designed that way from the beginning by the CM's.  Attendance will fall if you do.  I am quit sure that the scenario did not go the way that the CM's planned it.  Thats war and if you havent been there than you would'nt know.  Award the points fairly and by the established rules of the FSO.  If it was your intent for the AXIS to lose then that should have been stated very clearly in the AXIS orders I received.  Here are some examples for the next frame to limit and confusion:

  DO NOTHING AND LET THE ALLIED SIDE SHOT YOU DOWN BECAUSE I PLANNED IT THAT WAY.

  DONT ATTACK THE ALLIES BECAUSE THEY MIGHT NOT EXPECT THAT OR BE READY.

  Enough already!  Lets score this fairly and move on.  Rematch next Friday night in the FSO (Frame 02).  ALLIES come and get some becasue the AXIS side is PUMPED!

Viper 61
Operations Officer
325th VFG

AXIS CIC Frame 01

[doobs]

I didn't flame nor pat myself on the back, but my ords were direct and maybe yours wasn't .  but mine said

We are on the offensive, which means we expect no
Japanese attacks on our Fleets.
Every aircraft should be used in the Attacks. <--------------------------


every aircraft should be used in attacks, and its implied that the IJN would not hit our fleets.

We also lost two targets that weren't there, the trains, but no biggie.

But the axis should get ZERO points for any ships sunk because thats not one of the AXis objectives(I believe). If it wasn't an assigned objective, like nef said previously he was going to switch the plan for frame two. If you think the axis damage should be counted, then we should of been able to hit any target in Japan and accrue the points, no matter what the orders from the CM's are.



Viper believe me I'm not trying to start a war of words

3 out of the 4 targets for the allies were milkruns, and other squads flying cover never saw anything, this is the problem, not the fact that the axis plan used a loophole, to go attack the cv's(again not a flame)
The bottom line problem with your plan is at least half the allied side were bored silly.

Ya said the targerts were defended for the first hour, well if that is true, then why didn't we at tokyo, the USMC at the train to the NE of tokyo and the nightmares all hit there (well not usmc, no target to hit) targets within the first hour with absolutely no resistance. I never saw a bad guy.

again just my point of view nothing personal meant by it

[Shifty]

Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use I, ME, or MY, in both post.

[Husker]

Historical Fact: The USN sortied over 300 aircraft to kill the Yamato. We sent a Squadron and change.

I'm sure that given 6 or 7 carriers, with numerious VF squadrons and radar picket destroyers and the thousands of guns pointed skyward the IJN would have had a diffrent story IRL. My point is we launched with a total of around 250 people all together. Unfortunatly thats only enough to simulate with any amount of historically flavor the objectives the USN and USAAF were sent after and the defense the IJN would have mounted on those objectives. Sure If I wanted to win the war I'd take a Hellcat, some drop tanks, and a couple of cans of artifical sunshine ( as soon as HT gets that thrown in) and go downtown Tokyo and finish the war myself. But we can't, because that isn't what happened.

Yes, you were within the rules. But to me this strikes me more as a Kobyashi Maru sorta thing. Creative thinking, but the spirit of the matter wasn't followed. IMHO, this frame was more a wash for both sides. ( Not in any way the CM team or anyone elses fault.) Personally, I'd rather see the score reset to zero and let the final two frames decide the winner. Sure you knocked down a bunch of flatops... great. From the sound of it most of us where on the deck and in bed by the time these attacks happened because we didn't have enough time to launch second strikes. I give credit to you, it was a creative plan. Of course personally, I wouldn't go running around too loudly shouting about kicking 5 guys as*es at once if they are all blindfolded, bound, and you showed up with 60 guys at your back. Yes, if your fighting fair you didn't plan it right. But give me a break. Common sense applies here. ( Ask my MOI, common sense and me don't find one another often so this has gota be a spec. case.)

I would seriously challange the claim that the Yamato BG was defended in the first hour. We arrived, struck and were in egress prior to T+60 with the only hostile fire being taken from the BG itself.

None of this was ment as a personal attack on any CiC, CO, or CM. We're not paid pros at this and we're all greatful for those who dedicate their time to setting these up and run it. Sometimes we hit balls on, sometimes we miss. We live and learn and apply it to Frame 2.


Husker

[Dantoo]

Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use  I, ME, or MY, in both post.

Please remind me if I screw up again and treat you like an adult.

[Dantoo]

Viper I have to say your orders preparation and your on duty conduct as CIC impressed me as some of the best I have seen in any event.

I am honoured to have played even such a small part for you in what I considered to be a top drawer FSO frame.  In the parlance du jour:


You Rock!:aok

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Dantoo
Please remind me if I screw up again and treat you like an adult.

If what you think matters to me,  I'll let you know.

[Husker]

Play nice guys.... touch gloves at least first.

[Dantoo]

If what you think matters to me, I'll let you know.

What a retard.  You ask a question.  You get a sensible well laid out answer and all you can do is demonstrate your childish ignorance and respond with petty insults.  Why do creatures like you bother using up bandwidth?  Any person with an ounce of self respect or a peck of manners would have responded with thanks.

It should matter to you.  It's a measure of you that you both claim and show it doesn't.

[doobs]

Please stop. This wasn't the intention, of my  repsonse.

[Dace]

Originally posted by Dantoo
Viper I have to say your orders preparation and your on duty conduct as CIC impressed me as some of the best I have seen in any event.

I am honoured to have played even such a small part for you in what I considered to be a top drawer FSO frame.  In the parlance du jour:


You Rock!:aok

I would have to disagree here somewhat Dantoo, although I know that Viper meant well and his conduct is always top notch, I think that, while the orders were well within the rules, they were lacking in the spirirt of the event. The allies had a couple sqauds that saw NO ACTION. And you know the one thing that will kill an event quikcer than any other is lack of action. I've made the very same mistake in the past, and will never let in happen again. Let's just let bye gones be bye gones here and chalk this up as a learning experience. If you want the CMs to micromanage the event they can, but it would be more work on them and we don't want that.

[WxMan]

Originally posted by Husker
I would seriously challange the claim that the Yamato BG was defended in the first hour. We arrived, struck and were in egress prior to T+60 with the only hostile fire being taken from the BG itself.

 

The fact is both the AK's and the Dammed were tasked with defending the Yamato.  14 of the 17 kills (P-51s, P-47s) recorded by these two squadrons took place in the first 37 minutes of the frame in an intense high alt furball.

The logs also show that KzzrSore and Roscoroo of the Nightmares were given credit for Zippy of the Dammed during this period. So elements of your Squadron did encounter at least part of our CAP.  

Perhaps the visibility settings prevented you from seeing the encounter, or the rest of us as we may have been out of position when you engaged your target 5 minutes later. Regardless please refrain from making general challenges.

[Husker]

I was under the impression that no contact had been made prior to T+60 with any defensive units over the Yamato BG. I am now aware of this encounter and have no problem acknowledging it or that it satisfies the requirement. I will continue to voice my opinion on matters when I see the possibility of a problem however.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Dantoo
What a retard.  You ask a question.  You get a sensible well laid out answer and all you can do is demonstrate your childish ignorance and respond with petty insults.
 

Your're so right. I should follow the example you're setting.

I never questioned Viper. My question was aimed at the CMs. Why should one side have to use slower bomber type aircraft, and the other use whatever it wants? That wasn't directed at Viper. If he decides to answer with the self serving flourish he started this thread with that's his choice. It was just a tease , it's not like I said he was a retard.

You on the other hand giving anybody a lecture on manners or adult behavior  ........... That's just comedy, and every post you make keeps getting better.

[Dantoo]

OK let's take this from the top!  I would hate somebody to miss the value of your comedic relief and overall straight dealing and honesty. Original question:

Maybe I'm missing something here............. If you can attack any target you want regardless of what the CM's set up, and if you can fly what you want, what makes this different from the MA. Also if the one side is allowed to use heavy fighters for their strikes, why should the other side have people lumbeirng around in TBMs when they could use F6Fs or F4U's?

My response:
 

There are far better qualified people to answer this but I will have a shot:

You only get points for designated targets. You can hit anything you like (unless it's specifically protected in the rules) but it's a waste of time and ammo. You win a frame by getting more points than the other guy. Ultimately this win is usually considered less important than many other elements of the frame. It can be a useful guide however as to how balanced the setup was.

The rules for each frame usually dictate what types are to be used and how many of each type and what other restrictions are in place. This gives frame CO's a set of reasonable problems on how to achieve their tasking. It is up to the CO's to then allocate the resources they have decided best fits the plan they have developed.

There is no way you can design a 2 hour frame to be perfectly "fair and even" for everyone involved. It differs greatly from the main arena in that you use discretion and brains at the squad level also when you tackle your assigned task. If you are allocated Kates then you need to learn how to get the best out of them. Kate vs F4U1-C looks one sided on paper but it doesn't always turn out the way it looks. FSO is great for that.

The CO's plans are usually good right up to the point that the CM says "hangars open". At that point the other side starts trying to ruin your careful planning. and preserving their's. It's all in good fun.

People get their fun different ways. Most of us enjoy one simple thing in FSO - shooting down Doobs. Bombing his CV is fun too.

Your thanks:

Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use  I, ME, or MY, in both post.

Let's examine question again?  Nope no reference that says it was directed to Viper.  So response is....yes cheap insulting drivel and not even true.  This is how you treat people that answer your calls for assistance?

Your latest explanation:

I never questioned Viper. My question was aimed at the CMs. Why should one side have to use slower bomber type aircraft, and the other use whatever it wants? That wasn't directed at Viper. If he decides to answer with the self serving flourish he started this thread with that's his choice. It was just a tease , it's not like I said he was a retard.

True you never questioned Viper - now it was for the CMs.  Your lies aren't consistent.

You're so right. I should follow the example you're setting.

Yes you should.  You clearly entered the thread to make trouble.  I however responded  to your post to help someone who I thought genuinely wanted an answer.  I got trolled.  That will always happen to me because I still foolishly believe the best of people.  Why you and your type do this will always be beyond me.