Author Topic: A New Way Forward In Iraq (Read 5063 times)

Maverick · « **Reply #225 on:** January 19, 2007, 11:58:29 AM »

Having bare criticism is one thing, even from the subject matter experts. What I would find far more enlightening would be criticism with an alternative strategy brought forward. Just saying the car is broke doesn't get it fixed. You have to have a way or thought of how to fix it to be proactive.

Yeager · « **Reply #226 on:** January 19, 2007, 12:35:16 PM »

Three thoughts:

1) Find me a man who thinks one way and I will find an equivalent man who thinks just the opposite.

2) Once you commit your forces to battle you should finish what you started.

3) Since gaining the majority, the democrats have brought fourth no new strategy to discuss as an alternative to their desire to retreat. This includes some "retired" generals.

Hap · « **Reply #227 on:** January 19, 2007, 12:55:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
Three thoughts:

2) Once you commit your forces to battle you should finish what you started.

Some salient examples of "in for a penny, in for a pound" during past WW conflagations suggest Yeager that your assertion could use a qualifer or two.

All the Best,

hap

Yeager · « **Reply #228 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:25:57 PM »

Ok, Ill qualify it like this: Once you commit your forces to battle you should "at least try and" finish what you started.

Heres another qualification: Since gaining the majority, the democrats have brought fourth no new strategy "for success" to discuss as an alternative to their desire to retreat. This includes some "retired" generals. "This effort to bring Iraq into the modern age is not a world war, not yet. If we turn tail and evacuate Iraq we could very well be on the cusp of a world war."

Hap · « **Reply #229 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:47:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
Ok, Ill qualify it like this: Once you commit your forces to battle you should "at least try and" finish what you started.

Heres another qualification: Since gaining the majority, the democrats have brought fourth no new strategy "for success" to discuss as an alternative to their desire to retreat. This includes some "retired" generals. "This effort to bring Iraq into the modern age is not a world war, not yet. If we turn tail and evacuate Iraq we could very well be on the cusp of a world war."

1) Yes, I agree to "try and finish what we started."

2) Re "retreating," it's a preferable option if the results of "staying the course" are worse. Since I've no crystal ball. I don't know.

3) "Effort to bring Iraq into the modern age," it didn't need our help. Ask for our help. We attacked them without them attacking us. Our intel was erroneous & time will tell if the higher ups knew it.

4) Yes, it isn't a world war. I don't think it will become one either.

5) "We could be on the cusp of a world war," not in the traditional sense I think. And not one where nations change their economy to support an all out "war effort." Might the Islam V The West exist for the rest of my life. Sadlly, I expect so.

6) As far as "trying to finish what we started," if you were the Boss, Yeager, and had a 100% compliant congress and media, how much longer would you "try," and what would you do?

Regards,

hap

Yeager · « **Reply #230 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:53:22 PM »

if you were the Boss, Yeager, and had a 100% compliant congress and media, how much longer would you "try," and what would you do?
====
Good question. I dont know

Auger · « **Reply #231 on:** January 19, 2007, 02:50:10 PM »

At this point, the only viable option, other than the obvious one of taking our toys and going home, is ethnic cleansing. Separate all of the sects and invoke marshal law. No one crosses into a different sect's territory without a military escort. Close the borders and shoot everything that tries to cross at other than a military check point. Of course this will have to remain in place until another iron fisted dictator comes to power, or several generations go by and we can re-educate them not to want to kill each other on sight.

There aren't enough members in the military to pull that off. That would require a draft of every able-bodied 18-26 year old. As that isn't likely to happen, it is time to take the advice of the ISG and bring 'em home. There really is no other option. Staying the course (and a troop "surge" to levels we had there 2 years ago is just that) is only going to get more Americans killed needlessly and sow more hatred.

The primary thing keeping us there, and which kept us in another excursion we had no business in, is pride. Americans hate to admit when they're wrong, especially when the evidence of the mistake remains. We go absolutely ballistic at the thought of giving up while there is still time for a "Hail Mary". The politicians will continue to pour other people's blood on the ground in the faint hope that things will get better and they'll come out as heroes. We'll run out of blood long before this one gets better.

Hap · « **Reply #232 on:** January 19, 2007, 03:07:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Auger
At this point, the only viable option, other than the obvious one of taking our toys and going home, is ethnic cleansing. Separate all of the sects and invoke marshal law. No one crosses into a different sect's territory without a military escort. Close the borders and shoot everything that tries to cross at other than a military check point. Of course this will have to remain in place until another iron fisted dictator comes to power, or several generations go by and we can re-educate them not to want to kill each other on sight.

Auger, this is so. It was broken beyond repair, an entire generation's blood and money could not fix it -- maybe 10 generations -- before we attacked them. History says it can't be done.

Hopefully we can say our mea culpa's, and learn from this debacle. Each generation it seems has to relearn a lesson or so a past generation tried to pass on but the new kids on the block just don't get it.

Regards,

hap

2Slow · « **Reply #233 on:** January 19, 2007, 03:12:08 PM »

Split them into 3 countries. Suni (sp) can be Enron. ****e can be Texaco. Kurds can be Conoco.

Then let them slug it out as they have been doing for a couple of thousand years.

john9001 · « **Reply #234 on:** January 19, 2007, 03:21:58 PM »

everyone says the democrats don't have a plan, if fact they have four plans. They just can't decide which one will win in the 2008 elections.

A. run away now

B. phased run away

C. run to Kuwait and wait until they have to re-invade Iraq. ( murtha's plan)

D. split up Iraq into three parts, then run away. (biden's plan)

Hawco · « **Reply #235 on:** January 19, 2007, 03:52:06 PM »

Iraq is a quagmire. There's no reason to reach desperately for victory since defeat has already occurred.

lukster · « **Reply #236 on:** January 19, 2007, 03:54:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hawco
Iraq is a quagmire. There's no reason to reach desperately for victory since defeat has already occurred.

A defeatist attitude if ever I heard one.

Hap · « **Reply #237 on:** January 19, 2007, 04:10:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
A defeatist attitude if ever I heard one.

Your comment is beside the point Luckster. Do you think Hawco's statement be true of false?

And if true, why? And if false, why?

Regards,

hap

john9001 · « **Reply #238 on:** January 19, 2007, 04:40:27 PM »

Hawco's statement is false.

Iraq is not a quagmire.

defeat has not already occurred.

lukster · « **Reply #239 on:** January 19, 2007, 04:51:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hap
Your comment is beside the point Luckster. Do you think Hawco's statement be true of false?

And if true, why? And if false, why?

Regards,

hap

No it's not over and we haven't yet failed.