Author Topic: Gitmo Anneversary (Read 564 times)

DREDger · « **on:** January 11, 2007, 03:44:47 PM »

Today is the 5th anniversary of the Guantanimo Bay prison which is being protested in various places.

I can't help but wonder, why it is these protesters are never protesting the concentration camps currently run in North Korea. There is ample evidence they exist, eyewitness accounts as well as smuggled photos. Political dissidents are interned there, for crimes as paltry as owning a western DVD. Families are sent for the 'transgressions' of one member, which can be as insignificant as not having a picture of Kim Jong on every wall.

While there, people are worked to death, starved and beaten and frozen. The country itself is in a shambles, people are starving everywhere while the leaders enjoy lavish parties. Food aid from international organizations (primarily the USA) are routed to feed what is estimated to be the 4th largest army in the world.

If you compare the amount of suffering and transgression of human rights, one is a bb compared to cannon ball. (not to mention that I think those at Gitmo, the vast majority anyway, should probably be there to begin with)

Yet there it is, all that energy, effort and protest to try to pick up a dime while stepping over the dollar.

Viking · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2007, 03:48:09 PM »

I think the answer may be simple: They're not North Koreans, they are Americans, and care what is done in their name by their government.

DREDger · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2007, 03:58:14 PM »

bologni

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/01/11/guantanamo.protests/index.html

Most of the 'outrage' seems to be coming from those who are not from the US.

The liberal democrates in the British house of commons seem to dwell on it all the time.

Same as the European Union members.

Face it, it is the 'blame america first' crowd.

Viking · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:08:24 PM »

I thought you were talking about Cindy Sheehan, who lives 10 miles from where you grew up, and is now in Cuba protesting?

That's called a "bait and switch" btw.

DREDger · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:21:39 PM »

Also called 'straw man'

Going to edit and take out the Sheehan part, detracts from what I was trying to convey.

(Origionally indicated Sheehan was in Cuba protesting, who lives 10 miles from where I grew up)

lukster · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:21:55 PM »

I think we should let 'em all go but insist they all live next door to Sheehan, or maybe in one of those frozen scandanavian countries.

Viking · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:30:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
... or maybe in one of those frozen scandanavian countries.

No, that would be cruel and unusual punishment.

Nilsen · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:33:03 PM »

Protesting the obvious is pretty useless. The world in general has a distaste for NK leadership. Protesting against NK is useless as the general NK population wont see or hear anything of the protesting and wont question their government based on those protests.

Just like the smart fellas in here that pulls the "why dont you protest against saddam or extremist muslims when you whine about the US or Israeli policies" kinda thing.

You dont go around saying that killing or stealing is wrong every day either because its obvious. Those that then try to pull that card are either ignorant and belives that other actually support them or are diverting attention.

vorticon · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:49:09 PM »

"
I can't help but wonder, why it is these protesters are never protesting the concentration camps currently run in North Korea."

because there arnt british citizens being held in north korea?

DREDger · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:57:35 PM »

Protesting the obvious is pretty useless. The world in general has a distaste for NK leadership.

I'm not sure I agree with you completely Nilson. First I don't think the 'world' really has an understanding of what goes on in NK. The out of sight out of mind problem. Nor do I believe that protesting NK would be a waste of time, especially if it would pressure world leaders to take a more active stance (say China, who's population is fairly well informed due to the web access)

I do believe that Gitmo protests are misguided and myopic considering some of the other more pressing issues in the world, ie Darfur, NK, even Iran. Protesting the USA(policies) is more a fashionable exercise in some circles, as opposed to a genuine interest in world justice or righteousness.

I will concede that some people find Gitmo to be a miscarage of justice from the nation which is supposed to carry the standard..and I respect and understand that opinion. I just don't agree it warrants the attention being given considering other issues.

Vudak · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:10:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
Protesting the obvious is pretty useless. The world in general has a distaste for NK leadership. Protesting against NK is useless as the general NK population wont see or hear anything of the protesting and wont question their government based on those protests.

Just like the smart fellas in here that pulls the "why dont you protest against saddam or extremist muslims when you whine about the US or Israeli policies" kinda thing.

You dont go around saying that killing or stealing is wrong every day either because its obvious. Those that then try to pull that card are either ignorant and belives that other actually support them or are diverting attention.

I don't go for that.

N. Korea is clearly worse, but it's just too darn hard to change them. So people just barely try, or give up all together.

They think they have a better shot going against the US, which is probably correct, so that's what they do.

But, protesting America is a waste of time and effort that should be used against N. Korea and other places. Just because it's "hard" doesn't mean it doesn't need to get done.

Basically, by protesting America over these other nations, you're just making it more difficult for one of the only countries on earth that's willing to at least try something hard.

You have to give America that. We're actually trying. And for whatever history books we forgot when it came to the middle east, we've certainly remembered the lessons learned at the Munich Conference very well.

I'm not really sure Europe remembers that lesson... But, if I had to make an educated guess, Europe will realize that they don't have a choice soon enough. Within 10 years your armies will be marching side by side our armies, trying to battle back the masses of the "peaceful religion" who are swarming onto your continent.

I'll bet you a drink

Rolex · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:19:43 PM »

It warrants attention because nations have laws, and nations have signed contracts with other nations about the treatment and conditions under which people can lawfully be detained. It warrants attention because the building of a facility in a location to expressly evade the law, and the detainment of people without charges or trial, challenge the very fabric of the American judicial system, and challenge the trustworthiness of America to uphold signed international agreements.

Vudak · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:21:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
It warrants attention because nations have laws, and nations have signed contracts with other nations about the treatment and conditions under which people can lawfully be detained. It warrants attention because the building of a facility in a location to expressly evade the law, and the detainment of people without charges or trial, challenge the very fabric of the American judicial system, and challenge the trustworthiness of America to uphold signed international agreements.

Rather than "challenge this or that," how about "Mirror what we did during WW2 to the Japanese (the last war we've actually decisively won, go figure)."

Rolex · « **Reply #13 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:35:37 PM »

I'm sorry, Vudak, but I don't understand what you're trying to either say or ask. If it's some rhetorical point, can you help me by just saying it?

Vudak · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:39:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
I'm sorry, Vudak, but I don't understand what you're trying to either say or ask. If it's some rhetorical point, can you help me by just saying it?

Rolex at this point I don't even know what I was trying to say haha. See my post "Inconvenient Truth." My brain has gone to mush for the evening