Author Topic: Poll: Complex Engine Management  (Read 4360 times)

Offline Benny Moore

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #120 on: January 15, 2007, 08:23:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
IMO if I want complex engine management, I'll go learn how to fly a plane for real.


That's not an option for most people.  If it were, I wouldn't be here explaining to you why real engine management is fun.  I did try to learn a plane for real (and believe me it was fun, engine management and all), but it costs over a hundred dollars an hour and requires good health - neither of which I, or most people, have.  Therefore, it should be fairly obvious why I would want a simulator to be as close as possible as the real thing.

Ah, yes, Fbplummer, the droll "shoot yourself" argument.  Very well, I'll play along.  Sure, let's do that.  And if a player intentionally or through carelessness kills my player, then they will be prosecuted for murder for real.  And I'd also insist that everything else be exactly like real life, too, including perepherial vision and feel.  And by then we'd have real life flying of warplanes in mock combat, which is exactly what I want.

Offline FBplmmr

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1012
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #121 on: January 15, 2007, 08:29:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
...........  And if a player intentionally or through carelessness kills my player, ......




now there is an option I could lean twords!:rofl

Offline scottydawg

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1759
      • http://www.332nd.org
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2007, 08:46:32 AM »
I'm getting the feeling this thread has kind of gone off the deep end, so I'm gonna bail out and get a new plane.

Offline hubsonfire

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8658
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #123 on: January 15, 2007, 09:01:11 AM »
The analogy you make between getting killed in game and murder charges is incredibly stupid. Plummer's not telling you to shoot yourself, he's simply suggested that it would also be much more realistic for you to be unable to play the game again after your cartoon avatar dies. That's perfectly logical, as well as being extremely realistic.
mook
++Blue Knights++

Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way towards people paying attention to your posts.  -Stoney
I was wondering why I get ignored so often.  -Hitech

Offline Airscrew

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4808
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #124 on: January 15, 2007, 11:08:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
He who cannot teach, teaches gym........ Corollary by Widewing

not to steal your thunder WW, an excellent corollary btw, :)
but I remember a slightly different verison.

Those that can do, DO; Those that cant do, Teach; Those that cant Teach, Administrate

Offline ClevMan

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 154
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2007, 11:32:44 AM »
As a pilot myself, I like the idea of CEM in my airplane.  However, the flight model in AH is so close in comparison to other sims, I feel that too much realism might turn away those that have never flown an aircraft in real life, especially those that are just coming in.  The learning curve for AH is already pretty steep with the planes as they are, but imagine if you incorporated something as complex as CEM into these aircraft.

All in all, I would like to see some SEA or AVA scenarios that incorporate this feature, but I feel the main arenas would suffer from the fallout.  Great idea, though!

Offline RATTFINK

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3488
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2007, 11:36:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
For complex engine management I turn my joystick around 180 degrees.



:rofl   x 1000 :aok

<>  Drunky
Hitting trees since tour 78

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2007, 12:05:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
What are you talking about?  How can hot starts be unrealistic when it was done in real life?


Preheats are one thing but hot starts are another.

Well we need Hot and Hung starts in the 262 and Ar-234.

The 163 needs to blow up randomly.

We need some random catastrophic engine failures for a myriad of reasons.

Rough running engines so when you climb to 20k settling in for your 3 hour mission you have to return to base because your supercharger won't engage or you have fouled plugs that you can't correct.

Lets not forget when you drop in from 20-25k and descend into the lovely warm tropical air of most of our maps your windshield fogs up and you can't see anything.

Same goes for the guy who chops their throttle at 20k and rolls down into a dive supercooling the engine.

Random system failures.  Backwards rigged ailerons...you do check these prior to flight, right?  

Lets have weather systems, fog and the like that cancel missions.  It'd be realistic to have to stand down for a day.  I'm know I'd be happy that when I come to log in we're in our 3rd day of being socked in by fog which doesn't allow anyone to fly :rolleyes:



Benny, where does your quest for realism end?  One could sit here for 40 hours a week typing about what's "real" and what's Aces High.  I don't want to (and you don't want to) cancel flights because there's hydraulic fluid leaking or a burned out light bulb on my AH airplane.

I can see where you're coming from and why you can see them as neat features.  This just isn't the place for them in my humble opinion.  MSFS and X-Plane are where you can find those.  It's flat out not fair to new players to ask them to have to do things beyond the level of even a certificated private pilot when it comes to engine managment on a very high performance airplane.

Offline Benny Moore

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2007, 03:47:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
The analogy you make between getting killed in game and murder charges is incredibly stupid.


Not at all.  In reality, people die when they slam into the ground.  But in reality, people are careful in mock combat not to kill each other.  If you're going to imply that realism would be to not be able to play after dying in game, then you have to allow extreme penalties to ensure that players are as careful not to kill each other as people are in reality.  No one's asking to not be able to play after we die in game, or anything remotely similar.  So it's your side's analogy that's stupid, not mine.  Get off my case, Hubsonfire.

Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
Preheats are one thing but hot starts are another.

Well we need Hot and Hung starts in the 262 and Ar-234.

Benny, where does your quest for realism end?  One could sit here for 40 hours a week typing about what's "real" and what's Aces High.  I don't want to (and you don't want to) cancel flights because there's hydraulic fluid leaking or a burned out light bulb on my AH airplane.

I can see where you're coming from and why you can see them as neat features.  This just isn't the place for them in my humble opinion.  MSFS and X-Plane are where you can find those.  It's flat out not fair to new players to ask them to have to do things beyond the level of even a certificated private pilot when it comes to engine managment on a very high performance airplane.


I still don't know what you're talking about when you say that hot starts are unrealistic.  As I said, ground crews would often have the ships ready to go, or at the most two minutes away from it.

As I also said, what I want (and I'd have thought more people would want) is to fly real warbirds in mock combat.  Since I cannot have that, I want a simulator that mirrors that as closely as possible.  I don't see why I get bombarded with accusations that I'm asking for relief tube usage and stuff.  This "well why don't you never play the game again if you die" argument is the dumbest thing since gun control.

Microsoft Flight "Simulator" and X-Plane pale in realism compared to Aces High.  Oh, they've got better graphics and sounds or cockpit fiddling.  But as someone who has flown one of the actual airplanes Flight Simulator and X-Plane claim to simulate, I can say with some authority that the flight models are terrible.

Lastly, note that I've never suggested forcing this option on the player base.  The original question concerned a server side option, so that it would be up to the host.  Obviously, the vast majority of servers (including the official ones) would not use it.  I understand why such a system will not be implemented.  Most people don't want it, as they prefer gaming to flying.  Moreover, it would be, as Skuzzy pointed out, a nightmare to program and such.  I only wanted to see just how many would like to see flying made more like flying.  I didn't expect there to be so few.

P.S.  To those of you who accuse me, I am demanding nothing, have taken nothing that was not offered me, and remain grateful for what I have.

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2007, 04:07:23 PM »
A hot start is a malfunction.

Having an airplane ready on an "alert" if you will with a warm engine is something else.

Thus far you're asking for cockpit fiddling.  You want the engine management...fiddle away in flight sim.

Again I understand where you're coming from.  Just give some thought to how much fun that actually having to work to keep your airplane purring would be.

For me and many many many others it's the opposite of fun.

If you need your realism fix you could rent an airplane every so often with an instructor.  You don't need to work toward a rating to just go flying around.

I understand what you want...but at the same time it's not really practicable.  How real is it for you to click keyboard buttons or move a moust to do what you want to do.  Many flight schools and FBOs have simulators with all of the cockpit switches and displays you're looking for at a fraction of the cost of renting the real airplane.  An instructor to teach you some real things about real flying situations at real airports I think would suit your fancy much more than sitting in an office chair.

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2007, 04:08:54 PM »
Where in Ohio are you?  I'd spend a day with you either in an airplane or in a sim anytime to help you find what you'd like to do.  When you leave after learning something you'll have more questions than when you came.  That's the bug...feeding the bug and the thirst for knowledge is the fun part about the whole aviation game.

I have access to sims, basic airplanes and advanced gee whiz gadgetry equipped airplanes that would suit your every fancy.  Computer based simulators for GPS units and most every training aid you can fathom.

Surely there has to be something I can do to alleviate the headaches caused by some of these ideas on the boards.  And I sincerely would be happy to.

Offline Benny Moore

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2007, 04:24:31 PM »
I'm in Chardon, perhaps an hour away from you.  Right now I can't drive, however.  I had hand surgury three months ago and I've got another coming in perhaps two.  I also cannot fly anymore, probably ever.  My ears bleed from the pressure changes with even relatively small altitude changes.  Lastly, I cannot afford to fly anymore.  I can't even afford an Aces High subscription.  The offer is appreciated, however, and I will keep it in mind.  Really, though, I know what I want to do.  I want to fly airplanes, warbirds in particular.  It's just not a realistic goal.  For the present, I'm looking forward to Gennadich's Knights of the Sky and the open cockpit week at the Kalamazoo Air Zoo.

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2007, 04:45:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
Random system failures.  Backwards rigged ailerons...you do check these prior to flight, right?  


Yes actually, I do.

Quote
Originally posted byscottydawg
IMO if I want complex engine management, I'll go learn how to fly a plane for real.


I do. But each flight is expensive. Where do I go to practice the basic stick-control, aircraft-control, and just to mimic real flight as much as possible without having to fork over a couple hundred bucks an hour? Aces High and Microsoft Flight Sim. Maybe not complex engine management, because it will make life hard for HTC, but at LEAST make engines overheat if they are run at full RPM and full manifold. There are reasons other than fuel that pilots flew at max. cruise during the war.

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2007, 05:10:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
Yes actually, I do.


That was to Benny in his never ending quest for AH realism and was intended for sarcastic content related to in-game aircraft only.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Poll: Complex Engine Management
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2007, 06:16:32 PM »
Thanks Widewing; I wonder how many even know what a club prop is?

Here's a Pratt 4360 with a test club prop that is a C-130 Hercules prop cut down to nine feet, with manually adjustable pitch.




So, yes, they did run "under load".
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!