Author Topic: What is a HO?????? (Read 2102 times)

humble · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:28:52 PM »

A true HO is a full front aspect shot based on linear in plane manuevering. just that simple. Basically both planes are flying right at each other. there are actually stories in WW2 of planes colliding playing "chicken". Looked at more broadly any shot initiated during an initial merge is considered a "HO" by most {including me}. This line blurs based on E state and initial positioning. At some point you stop having a merge and actually have a "lead turn". Historically a "face shot" is any shot facilitated on the merge thru an early lead turn that leads to a front aspect shot [ahead of the 3,9 line]. The closer to a frontal shot the clearer the face shot....as your angle approaches closer to the 3,9 line the closer to a true "snapshot you come.

Many ex Aw players view the "remerge" in a duel as a 2nd "HO" free zone. This comes from poor ACM where the "safe" bet was a 2nd nuetral merge. In reality managing the fight to either get around or avoid a bad shot scenario is critical to success (not meaning that many including myself will decline these in a duel). Many times these "HO's" are nothing but quality looks earned thru proper ACM {after all every move has a counter}.

Going to the specific scenario you describe your a picker not a HO'er:aok. The opposing pilot identified you as a threat and made the choice to turn into you. 1st and formost any in plane manuever invites a plane form shot. By definition at some point he has to move thru your shot window. So he broke the fundemental rule that you need to execute an out of plane manuever to defeat a guns solution. Based on relative speed nothing more then either a nose down or nose up control input would have defeated your shot. It may or may not have denied you a second shot....but by pulling into you he created your canopy shot. As a single alternate how about if he had pulled into you then executed a barrel roll.

Suave · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:29:02 PM »

If you haven't read this yet. Well that's not something you should tell others. Just read it now and pretend like you read it a long time ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Maneuvering-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599

Bronk · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:33:39 PM »

The term "Head On" give the impression that if no action is taken.

The 2 objects will collide .

Just think what is considered a Head On collision.

If the nose of my car hits the right front quarter of another.
In the Police report It would be written up as XXX car struck xxx car in the right fender.

Still the front of the car but much different than hitting "Head ON".

Tango, Shaw never called it a head on intercept did he.
Front 1/4 big difference.
Any one who calls a front 1/4 shot a HO is a whiner. They are trying to justify why the were shot down.

Bronk

Suave · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:33:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
Suave you stated it as fact. The burden of proof is on you.

Ohh I see because you say it it must be true ehh?

So story teller care to provide proof .

Or is the moon made of cheese because i just said so?

Bronk

Well if you want to bandy legal terms like a ****house lawyer.. you're wrong again. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Because you accuse me of not telling the truth I'm supposed to jump through hoops and educate you?

Yeah, don't hold your breath.

Suave · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:36:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk

Any one who calls a front 1/4 shot a HO is a whiner. They are trying to justify why the were shot down.

Bronk

Anyone who calls a Ho shot a 1/4 shot is a whiner. They are trying to justify why they used a 1/4 shot.

God that simple word HO really gets dweebs worked up.

Whiners

Bronk · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:43:05 PM »

from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/head%20on

head-on /ˈhɛdˈɒn, -ˈɔn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hed-on, -awn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.   (of two objects) meeting with the fronts or heads foremost: a head-on collision.
2.   facing the direction of forward motion or alignment; frontal.
3.   characterized by direct opposition: a head-on confrontation.
–adverb
4.   with the front or head foremost, esp. in a collision: She stepped out of the front door and walked head-on into her husband.

Yea no angles mentioned here.

Bronk

Edit: I hurts Suave feawing so I edited out the nasty insulting derogatory bits.
Is you feewing better now Suave?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:44:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
Anyone who calls a Ho shot a 1/4 shot is a whiner. They are trying to justify why they used a 1/4 shot.

God that simple word HO really gets dweebs worked up.

Whiners

So if a guy gets his nose in quicker and rips the other guy from the top of his engine across the cockpit and back towards the tail, you'd consider that a HO?

I've been on the recieving end of those and hit a few myself, and I don't take the HO by choice but I will take the snap shot of the guy hasn't pulled in nose to nose with me. I've never seen that as a HO shot, just a good shot by a guy who got the jump on the other or turned it in tighter.

HO is still the guy that lines it up from a million miles away and comes in a blazing with his cannons. Most times you can duck, but sometimes, this big 38G target loses part of a wing or an engine not ducking quick enough

Suave · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:46:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
So if a guy gets his nose in quicker and rips the other guy from the top of his engine across the cockpit and back towards the tail, you'd consider that a HO?

I've been on the recieving end of those and hit a few myself, and I don't take the HO by choice but I will take the snap shot of the guy hasn't pulled in nose to nose with me. I've never seen that as a HO shot, just a good shot by a guy who got the jump on the other or turned it in tighter.

HO is still the guy that lines it up from a million miles away and comes in a blazing with his cannons. Most times you can duck, but sometimes, this big 38G target loses part of a wing or an engine not ducking quick enough

Guppy read the post that I was mimicking. I was simply pointing out the gayness of the ho/not a ho whiners.

Suave · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:48:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/head%20on

head-on /ˈhɛdˈɒn, -ˈɔn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hed-on, -awn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.   (of two objects) meeting with the fronts or heads foremost: a head-on collision.
2.   facing the direction of forward motion or alignment; frontal.
3.   characterized by direct opposition: a head-on confrontation.
–adverb
4.   with the front or head foremost, esp. in a collision: She stepped out of the front door and walked head-on into her husband.

Yea no angles mentioned here.

Whine on tard boi.

Bronk

I see you too have been reduced to smoldering ad hominem.

Bronk · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:48:15 PM »

Yea that dictionary definition of head on was sooo ad hominem.

Try some Gorgonzola .

Bronk

Suave · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:51:18 PM »

Well you used multiple emoticons so that must prove that calling me "tard boi" was not a personal insult.

Bronk · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:55:53 PM »

Feew better now?

Bronk

dtango · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2007, 01:02:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
Tango, Shaw never called it a head on intercept did he.
Front 1/4 big difference.
Any one who calls a front 1/4 shot a HO is a whiner. They are trying to justify why the were shot down.

I have no idea why people make such a big deal about what the difference is between a HO or front quarter shot. Either way the guy that gets shot is in the fight path of the enemies bullets. If skill was involved, I'd say that they guy that recognizes this and is able to defeat a gun solution is the more skilled vs. the guy that gets hit and whines about it.

Shoot the other guy down however you can. If you maneuver your plane in a way that puts you across my guns whether nose-to-nose, forward-quarter, rear-quarter, I'm going to shoot. Simple as that.

Furthermore skill has nothing to do with taking a front-quarter or even a HO shot. You might have twisted and turned across the sky or you may have just flown straight into the other guy to end up in that position.

Lastly I can understand how HO's and FQ shots all look the same. Things are usually happening so fast and angles are changing so rapidly in maneuver anyway so it's hard to judge angles accurately.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

KONG1 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2007, 01:03:09 PM »

This is a HO

Bronk · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2007, 01:07:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dtango

Lastly I can understand how HO's and FQ shots all look the same. Things are usually happening so fast and angles are changing so rapidly in maneuver anyway so it's hard to judge angles accurately.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Wait so now there is a difference ?!!????

Since there is a difference don't tell Suave, it would shatter him.

Bronk