bombers

[0verlag]

LANCASTER!!!!!

[Krusty]

In this game, a B-24 would never have survived THIS:



But I landed safely (after gliding a full sector with no fuel left, but that's my fault I didn't bring enough to start with).

[Stoney74]

I personally feel the B-24 is almost as vulnerable as the Lancaster.  The Lanc takes more damage, but is slower and less well armed, so I say its a wash.  One burst in the wing root and the Liberator is en fuego.  I've shot down a lot of bombers, and the B-17 is the most survivable/toughest.  Make up for its smaller bomb load by always hitting what you drop on.  With the laser beam accuracy of bombing in this game, there's no need to drop more ord than necessary.  And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.

Oh yeah, if you actually fly the heavy bombers where they should be (above 20K), the B-17 is also faster than the B-24.  Take 'em up to 28K, and the B-17 shines.  Watch the fighters wheeze as they climb up to try and intercept you.

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Stoney74
I personally feel the B-24 is almost as vulnerable as the Lancaster.  The Lanc takes more damage, but is slower and less well armed, so I say its a wash.  One burst in the wing root and the Liberator is en fuego.  I've shot down a lot of bombers, and the B-17 is the most survivable/toughest.  Make up for its smaller bomb load by always hitting what you drop on.  With the laser beam accuracy of bombing in this game, there's no need to drop more ord than necessary.  And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.

Oh yeah, if you actually fly the heavy bombers where they should be (above 20K), the B-17 is also faster than the B-24.  Take 'em up to 28K, and the B-17 shines.  Watch the fighters wheeze as they climb up to try and intercept you.

I go for 18k, because from the reading I have been doing, thats where the low squadron was normally. 26k is the highest I have conducted opporations. Is it REALLY worth the climb to take it to 28? (By that I mean were most opporations conducted around 18k or 28?)

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Serenity
I go for 18k, because from the reading I have been doing, thats where the low squadron was normally. 26k is the highest I have conducted opporations. Is it REALLY worth the climb to take it to 28? (By that I mean were most opporations conducted around 18k or 28?)

Can't say exactly, but...  I do know that when the B-24 showed up, 8th AF tried doing integrated missions with both B-24's and B-17's.  The B-24 pilots said they couldn't keep up with the B-17's because as soon as they got above 20K, they were wheezing.  Same interview said that the B-17's were normally flying 28K (at least at the time).  Don't know where that would put the low, low squadron, but 18K sounds low to me.

I do know that some of the early raids along the French coast were at lower altitudes.  Just got done reading Robert Johnson's book, and he was describing their escort altitude as 32K, and only being a couple thousand feet above the bombers.

28K is a historical altitude for B-17's.  About the only thing that can hang with you up at that altitude is a P-47, TA-152.  Some other fighters can get that high, but perform like pigs.  You won't have to worry about them doing anything but climbing up from underneath you--in full view of the belly and rear turrets.

[Rino]

Originally posted by Stoney74
I personally feel the B-24 is almost as vulnerable as the Lancaster.  The Lanc takes more damage, but is slower and less well armed, so I say its a wash.  One burst in the wing root and the Liberator is en fuego.  I've shot down a lot of bombers, and the B-17 is the most survivable/toughest.  Make up for its smaller bomb load by always hitting what you drop on.  With the laser beam accuracy of bombing in this game, there's no need to drop more ord than necessary.  And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.

Oh yeah, if you actually fly the heavy bombers where they should be (above 20K), the B-17 is also faster than the B-24.  Take 'em up to 28K, and the B-17 shines.  Watch the fighters wheeze as they climb up to try and intercept you.

     Just subjective, but I feel that the B-26 is the toughest...fast, lots of
50 cal ammo for the tail.  The 17 is physically tough but has an anemic
tailgun ammo load IMHO.

[tedrbr]

B-26 is fine, if you only need a medium bomb load and plan to stay low, under 5K AGL really.  Lower even to help prevent enemy fighters coming at you from directly below you where you've no turret coverage.  The ammo load of the rear gun is nice to have.  I don't take B-26's very high, ever.

B-17's at 20 to 25K is where I generally operate if using buffs to pork strats.  Bombers can be very accurate at those heights... I've been loading 500 lb bombs, and taking out strats with salvo 1.... but I do it by adjusting my throttle to where the B-17 stays at constant altitude.  Tried using trim to level it out, but at full throttle, the B-17 still wants to climb.... which throws off a long 15 to 30 second calibration.  So, I give up some speed for high accuracy at those altitudes.

I think in-game, we are missing a dorsal gun for the B-17's Radio Operator, aren't we?

Used to run B-17 at 25 to 30K to pork troops.... but with so many barracks per field now, I don't run those missions any more.  Resup happens too fast, and fewer planes come clawing up to those altitudes to attack me..... which was part of the fun.... especially when it was an La7 or Niki trying to climb up after me.

I'll attack CV's with Ar-234's and Ki-67's at between 5 and 7K altitudes.  I take hits, but the speed on the way in, and shorter drop time, helps against maneuvering CV's.

[0verlag]

Originally posted by Stoney74


28K is a historical altitude for B-17's.  About the only thing that can hang with you up at that altitude is a P-47, TA-152.  Some other fighters can get that high, but perform like pigs.  You won't have to worry about them doing anything but climbing up from underneath you--in full view of the belly and rear turrets.

b17s never bombed at that height..... remember they didn't have laser guided bombs. Bombing alt was between 16-24k i think.... you also have to remember that they don't have warm computer rooms, but have unpressurised, freezing cold compartments to work in.

[0verlag]

Originally posted by tedrbr


but I do it by adjusting my throttle to where the B-17 stays at constant altitude.  Tried using trim to level it out, but at full throttle, the B-17 still wants to climb.... which throws off a long 15 to 30 second calibration.  So, I give up some speed for high accuracy at those altitudes.
 

hmm.... your auto level not work? i seen you say this before but you are the only person to say your b17 still climbs when in the bombsite/autolevel.

press X and it will level. any turns with the "rudder in gunsite" method will throw it out, but that isnt to do with throttle or anything, its just the turn.

Originally posted by Stoney74
 And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.

 

hmm i dropped rooks city down to 10% with just 1 set of planes (2 main passes, 1 to clean up)..... then on 2nd mission dropped rooks AAA down to  16% (2 passes).

keeping there AAA down for well over 1hour gave us a chance to take back bases.... or rather vulch newbies.... hmm what a waste of effort that was lol.

1000lbs are great for blast damage, if its a tightly packed target, a 1000lb bomb can take out close to 10buildings on a city. A 500lb'er will only take out 2 or 3.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by 0verlag
b17s never bombed at that height..... remember they didn't have laser guided bombs. Bombing alt was between 16-24k i think.... you also have to remember that they don't have warm computer rooms, but have unpressurised, freezing cold compartments to work in.

Quote taken from a mission diary posted here HERE


Date: June 21, 1944 Mission #18
Location of target: Berlin, Germany

Load: 2700 gals of gas, 10-500 lb. general purpose & 2-500 lb. cluster incendiaries.
Altitude: 27,000 feet.
Flight Time: 9:10 hours
Escort: P-47s, P-38s, P-51s all the way.

Position: No. 2 of second element of low squadron of lead group of combat wing.

Opposition: Intense flack and fighters, ME-109s, 410s, 210s, 110s, Ju-88s & FW-190s. .

Battle damage: Flack hole through the bomb-bay door and into the front glass of ball turret, but fell into turret. Glass dust in his eyes. There was a hole through the left waist window. Our brakes were shot out.

Results: Bombed as briefed.

Day's losses: 8th AF 43 bombers, 15 fighters and 12 bombers landed in Sweden..

Remarks: We assembled at briefing at 2:15 AM after breakfast. They raised the curtain, and there was the route straight to Berlin.

[Debonair]

i would like to see a photo of Ju88 loaded with WGr. 21s
never have & i dont know how many they carried, but i fantasize about six:aokor maybe even eight:O:O

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by 0verlag
hmm.... your auto level not work? i seen you say this before but you are the only person to say your b17 still climbs when in the bombsite/autolevel.

press X and it will level. any turns with the "rudder in gunsite" method will throw it out, but that isnt to do with throttle or anything, its just the turn.

I guess not, at full speed with autolevel on (pressed X, yellow light on), I've noticed most heavy bombers still have a tendency to gain altitude.  Not a good thing when dropping a single salvo of 500's from 20K+ on a radar tower, ord, or similar strat target at a field.  Use J and L for fine corrections, as I'm lined up on my target 20 miles out and settling down for an accurate run.

I've played with trim tabs, but just does not want to fly dead level at full speed even at altitude.  Less an issue with Ki-67's which will almost stay level for me at full throttle.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by 0verlag
keeping there AAA down for well over 1hour gave us a chance to take back bases.... or rather vulch newbies.... hmm what a waste of effort that was lol.

1000lbs are great for blast damage, if its a tightly packed target, a 1000lb bomb can take out close to 10buildings on a city. A 500lb'er will only take out 2 or 3.

Hey, I'm not saying a 1000lb bomb is ineffective, quite the contrary.  What I was saying was that the Lanc is not as survivable as a B-17.  If you're flying the thing high enough, and have some escorts, a Lanc can be quite effective.  What I see are guys flying them unescorted at 8K hoping someone doesn't pick 'em up before they get at least one pass in.

I'd be curious to know whether or not you were intercepted on your mission, and what altitude you were flying?  I'm gonna guess no on the first question, and high on the second.

[0verlag]

Originally posted by Stoney74
Hey, I'm not saying a 1000lb bomb is ineffective, quite the contrary.  What I was saying was that the Lanc is not as survivable as a B-17.  If you're flying the thing high enough, and have some escorts, a Lanc can be quite effective.  What I see are guys flying them unescorted at 8K hoping someone doesn't pick 'em up before they get at least one pass in.

I'd be curious to know whether or not you were intercepted on your mission, and what altitude you were flying?  I'm gonna guess no on the first question, and high on the second.

saying "never" to the bomb alt question was a bit daft by me.... but it was rare i think.... lol


back to the lancs:

19k in lancs.
19k is the best alt before the engine starts loosing boost, so this is the fastest alt.

Route planning.
I also plan my route so not to encounter enemy BEFORE I'm at cruise alt/speed. This generally means going around radar circles, and avoiding mass front-line engagements. Basically means 75miles climb within my country.

interception.
Generally all my interceptors are running out of breath, only low 6 climbing up to me. Most the time, its too late once they see me to stop the first batch of bombs going out (between 6-9 on first pass depending on target). I generally have La7s and Nikis trying to chase me down. Only thing that really worries me is 110s already at alt in front of me, P47s, and Ta152's/163/262....

those two missions i mentioned i was engaged by the same guy. First time he was flying something not made for the job.... cant remember what, but he filled my lancs with lead but didn't really do damage, and soon died.  2nd time he got wise and chased me down with a Ta152.. he killed 2 of my planes, before turning back and landing (assuming pilot wound).




However i do love flying B17s, and sometimes B24s. Only really use lancs when i bombing Cities (a big target that i want under 50% before bombing other targets), and once i turned to other strat targets i turn to the stronger buffs.

[Serenity]

Still say B-17G. In a recent snapshot, I lead a flight of 5 B-17Gs at 26,000 feet against Bf-109G-14s, Fw-190 D-9s, and Me-163s. Against all of that opposition, we reached the target, bombed, and were finally killed only after releasing our ordenance, and only by the overwhelming Me-163s. (I was finally brought down by a collision from a 163 which set my number 2 engine ablaze.).