Originally posted by lazs2
It is fine to have theories about man made global warming and even do the research if you are so inclined as a scientist...
Just don't ask me to pay for it and.... if you do find some element of man that is causing some part of it... you had better have ironclad proof of not only that it is a part of it but that any solution you offer that costs me even one cent or inconvienences me in any way... that you have proof that it is not only true but that if I do as you say... it will have a noticeable affect.
Say for instance we are in a natural warming cycle or a sun anomaly... say you prove absolutely that we are contributing to that by oh..... .00005% or.. that if we continue to say, drive cars... we will make it so that they planet will be uninhabitable in 4,000 years but.... if we all stop driving today... right this second.... that it will stretch out the doomsday time by 14 minutes.. the world will then survive another 14 minutes... guess what... You can walk if you like but I'm gonna drive.
If you are less than 100% certain don't even bother me..
And, that is the way most people feel I think... and that is why there is such an outcry from the handwringers to shut down any debate on it. They want complete control of the discussion because they know their position is weak.
lazs
Yep. SOunds about right. So, the answer to to raise the bar to an impossible height to "prove it". Unfortunately, there is NO way to be 100% sure about anything to such a high degree in a complex system such as the world's environment. It's like trying to nail down economic futures with 100% certainty. It's like knowing how the Super Bowl will end, with which teams and what score, before the pre-season has begun. It cannot be done.
So, since it cannot be done, then nothing should be done?
Solar input, water salinity, continental drift, biomass totals, atmospheric composition, population growth rates, world gross domestic product and accompanying environmental effects, volcanic activity, ice cap and shelf melting rates,.... the variables are endless.
lazs does emphasis the primary argument against addressing the global warming debate.... cost.... or immediate costs for this and the coming fiscal quarter. This or next years taxes. All concern on the immediate future, and 0 thought as to long term consequences. Do what you want so long as it does not inconvenience me or cost me anything.
This is the primary drive to not dealing with global warming, not dealing with health care problems in the United States, and not dealing with a Social Security system that is doomed to collapse, to not fixing a failed education system...... immediate costs. Never mind about tomorrow..... that will be someone else's problem. Besides, tomorrow never comes.
Or we can just turn to major religions.... the world is only 3,000 years old, so ALL the data is therefore false..... so no problem. Go to church.
Senerio:
We lose 1/2 of the Greenland icecap, and half of the endangered ice shelfs of West Antarctica. Sea levels rise 20 feet. This could happen in less than a decade. All coastal cities are drowned. All ports are out. No oil imports. Few oil refineries. No oil, natural gas, or gasoline available for transportation or heat or power generation. No products to stock the shelves at Wal Mart. No steady supply of groceries at the market.
To avoid the total economic collapse on this scale would mean the moving of all these capabilities to higher ground. Land would have to be seized as needed. Suspension of all property rights. Moving each major industrial center would be akin to the Soviets moving the industrial capability of western Russia to the other side of the Ural Mountains in WWII..... and all the deprivations and brutal excesses that those basically slave-labor workers faced in that effort. I doubt it could be done. For a people and civilization that shows little interest in trying to prevent such a situation developing in the first place, I seriously doubt they will be able to step up when the time comes.
And whether mankind's activities are responsible or not has become moot.
Sea level is rising, and continues to rise. The ice packs, caps, and shelfs are melting at rates never seen my modern man. The average temperature around the Earth is going up. Species are migrating to northern latitudes and higher elevations. Droughts and severe weather are happening more often and to a greater degree. A hurricane has developed in the South Atlantic, once that was thought impossible. Polar bears are drowning.
These are all happening. They are measurable and observable.
Pretending nothing is happening doesn't seem to be working. But just because it's not working so far is no reason to stop not trying.
