Ta152H-1 wing tanks = asymmetrical???

[Krusty]

I was doing some testing in a few aircraft to see what kind of weight differences there was with different fuel loads or ammo loads, and I ran into something funny....

The Ta152H-1 in Aces High has 4 fuel tanks. It has aft, fwd, left wing and right wing.

Only, the right wing has 44 gallons, but the left has 62!!!

Ta152H-1 263 gal total
44 gal right wing
62 gal left wing
96 gal aft
62 gal fwd

Is that a bug? Surely that can't be right.

Avgas in AH weighs 6 lbs per gallon. That's 264 lbs in the right wing and 372 lbs in the left! Why/how is this?

[MiloMorai]

right wing - 77l + 80l = 157l (116kg)
right wing - 70l MW50 (52kg)

left wing - 70l + 80l + 77l = 227l (167kg)

would say the weight in each wing almost the same.

167kg left wing to 168kg right wing

[Krusty]

So, you're saying the real aircraft had 2 tanks per wing? In AH we only have 1 tank per wing, and one side is 50% heavier than the other.

Do you have any documentation for this? Something I could point to in a bug report and say "it should be thus"?

[MiloMorai]

no 3 tanks per wing. 3 fuel tanks in the left wing and 2 fuel tanks and a MW50 tank in the right wing

pg 189 of Tank's bio book.

[Krusty]

So, the MW50 is being left out of the right wing. In the 190A-8 the MW50 tank is used as a fuel tank. Shouldn't it be the same way in the 152? MW50 would drain with time, but now we have a solid weight in the wing that will never drain, even after the fuel drains.

Doesn't seem fair to the unstable 152, does it? The plane's got problems already!

[MiloMorai]

The fueslage aux tank in the 152H-1 is used for the GM1.

[Krusty]

How much does the GM1 tank weigh, total?

That's another weight that would empty over time but does not.

The Ta152 is the ONLY tail heavy plane in the game. I used to visit 8-player rooms with air spawn maps, and you can spawn ANY plane and get it to nose down as you start the engine and pull the gear up --  any plane except the 152H-1. It is impossible to air start because it will fall into a tail spin every time (the CoG is too far rearward -- it SHOULD be in the wing somewhere, it's behind it). This is why it is a terrible dogfighter. This is why I was hoping very much that it would be redone with the 190s. I hope someday they fix this. Hell just make the GM1 tank an aux gas tank. Make the MW50 another aux tank. That way when they're empty they don't fubar the flight characteristics!

[MiloMorai]

The weight of the 85l GM take is 63kg. In Hermann's 152 book it is stated that the GM system was dropped from production a/c.

IRL the 152H-1 was tail heavy with full tanks.

The P-51D with its fuselage tank should exhibit the same characteristics.

How does AH model fuel flow from an a/c's tanks?

[Krusty]

Hrm... I usually leave it on auto, but I *think* it drains the wings first then aft/fwd. I think it toggles evenly amongst wings and fuselage tanks, but I could be wrong.

As for the full fuel weight, the Ta152H-1 in Aces High is horribly tail heavy even when light on fuel. Those 8-player rooms I mentioned usually had 10x ammo but 0.000001 fuel burn, so you'd never take more than 25%. Even so it slid into the ground tail first every time. The air starts on one map started at 15-20k. That's a long time to try and correct. I tried over and over and over. The Dora was a little difficult but possible. Most aircraft were balanced enough that, even if they wanted to tail down, you could roll/rudder/force it nose down. The Ta152 is so tail heavy it drops arse first before you can get a word in edge-wise, then it's too late.

[MiloMorai]

Krusty, apply some stab trim.

[Mustaine]

you know I always noticed wing dip in the TA.... wonder if this is something HTC knows about

[Serenity]

Perhaps manually balancing fuel would counter this? I have recently been trying to manually control fuel flow and have discovered that you can really customise your flight charactoristics just by how you drain the fuel. For example, I have been flying the Typhoon a bit recently, and rather than auto-draining tanks, I drain the left wing first, keeping it 1/8 lighter, thus improving low speed handling. Also, dont trust the damage list as far as how many tanks there are in each spot. The Spitfire mk I has two tanks, bottom and top, but the damage list only lists the bottom tank. It may be that additional tanks are modelled, or used for other things, and they are just not listed.

[Krusty]

Yes, sometimes draining one wing tank more than another can help you turn in one direction (for example, some drain one wing tank in the F4us and leave the other so they can "turn into the torque" without such severe problems, however this is a problem with the "empty" wing, where the balance and stability of the craft is being screwed with when there's no fuel in the tanks.

[mussie]

Originally posted by Krusty
Doesn't seem fair to the unstable 152, does it? The plane's got problems already!

problems... BAH I don't see problems I see challenges... where the fun in tree-topping a spitty when you can do it in the 152....

[Serenity]

Actually krusty, I drain fuel for level flight. At low speed the Typhoon will always drop its left wing, I lighten it to increase stability. But play with your fuel settings and see if you can increase stability. My biggest problem with the Ta-152 is that at low level it struggles, and no one flies at 30k, its best altitude.