Spitfire

[Karnak]

Contrary to what you may believe Benny, the Spitfire was a better pure air superority fighter than the P-38 was.  It was more agile, with better accleration and much, much easier to fly and fight in.

The P-38 was, on the other hand, a much better strike aricraft and long range Fighter.

Thus, the fact that an average pilot in the Spitfire Mk VIII, Mk XIV or Mk XVI will beat an average pilot in a P-38J or P-38L should be no surprise at all.

Yet to you it is, oddly.


And no, an average Spitfire pilot in AH will be destroyed by a great P-38 pilot.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Serenity


And Bronk, Squire, I have enough crap loading down my comp, I cannot record every one of my flights, and by the time I hit alt R the anomoly has already happened, and I have made my way away from this strange plane. Just keep your eyes open and you will see it. Heres a hint: Stop flying the Spixteen, and just watch others fly them. The only way I have ever beat a Spixteen is in a turn and burn. That is the only thing this plane seems to be bad at, but its bad enough that a Bf-109G6 can turn inside it, and even loop inside it in proper conditions. But here, JUST for you, I will record every single one of my flights and e-mail them to you so YOU can have a nice bogged down computer too, and YOU can sort through all 30 minutes, and all 100+ films, and find those 3 seconds where a Spixteen is defying physics. Would you like me to do that for you? Id be glad to.




 

1st you better do a little research before you make accusations. I have a grand total of 8 kills and 2 deaths in the XVI. I use it fore base defense.

2nd if it's so stressful to hit alt+r I can see how much a problem the XVI is for you.

3rd here is my fav pic



This should remind you once again its the pilot not the plane.

4th the Mk VIII performance is almost identical. Yet no whines about it.

It's all in your head.

Now for the obligatory teen comment.  You're a teen you think you know more than you actually do. No worries you will grow out of it.


Bronk

[Angus]

The VIII is a very good XVI killer.
(Just take less % of fuel, since the tanks are much bigger)

[humble]

the spitfire (the spitXVI especially) is fairly mediocre in AH. By no means is it a bad plane....it's simply not an uber one. The spitXVI has a top speed of 378....while it turns well its handling is a bit touchy on the edge. The VIII is far more deadly then the XVI (IMO) with the spit IX my favorite. If we look at the plane mix the hurricane is a much more deadly pure T&B plane then any spitfire. The FM-2 flies circles around any spitty and the Ki-84 will dominate the spitfire if the spitty is dumb enough to slow the fight down enough.

What I find amazing is just how dominant the 109E is over the spit I. We flew a bunch of 4 x 4's in the DA awhile back. not only did the 109E sweep but it did so 7-1 with the only kill registered on a 109 a pilot goof.

No question that the spits combination of speed view turn and acceleration make it a fine plane, both IRL and the game. But in reality a spit isnt anything other then a target much of the time. most of the guys who are really good in thr spitty's are really good in everything else also:)

[humble]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Right you are!  The difference is that you're not going to see a server full of P-38s like you do Spitfires.  Even when the planeset is pretty much tailored to American ships, the P-38 comprises a very low percentage of the ships flown (as it should).

Straffo, an airplane can make up for pilot skill.  The best pilot in the world, flying a P-47, won't ever touch your average F-15 pilot.  That's a really extreme example, of course, but it's true.  Unless the Spitfire pilot really don't know his stuff, it doesn't matter how good the P-38 pilot is.  He's going to lose.  If you don't believe me, we can arrange a duel in my server.  It's pretty much lag-free and people respect the duel in there.  I'll fly Spitfire Mark XIV (which I've never flown before) and you can fly the P-38.  You will lose.

Actually it is impossible for a spit driver to beat a 38, the 38 can only lose. Now the pilot is by far the majority of the equation. But the only spitty that can beat a 38 (L) is the XIV. The spitty is by far the easier plane to fly but the 38 just owns it one on one. If you restrict things to a no extention dueling environment the edge goes to the spitty given avergae pilots on both sides....but in a dueling flat merge anything goes....only time the spitty sees the 38 thru the gun site is on that 1st merge...

[Bronk]

Originally posted by humble
the spitfire (the spitXVI especially) is fairly mediocre in AH.

Wooot bring 25 lb boost to the Mk XVI cus it's mediocre.


Bronk

[Kweassa]

It's more about the guns and hitting distances in this game, rather than a problem with the plane itself IMO.

 What if people can't hit worth crap outside 200 yards like its supposed to? Then even a small advantage in speed would be enough to justify flying a faster plane over a Spitfire. However, in AH the firing distances of average grade pilots are commonly as far out as 400 yards, with some great marksmen shooting out far as 600~800 yards to bring enemy planes down. Me, I've personaaly been shot down countless times by 50cals from more than 600 yards out, upto about 800 yards max.

 Ofcourse, this is an improvement when you think about AH1. In AH1 the hitting distances were even further out, 500~600 yard shots were the norm where a casual spraying of cannons at distances would still have a high probability of bringing enemy planes down.

 Compared to AH1, the pilots who fly other planes nowadays have it easy when fighting planes like the N1K or the Spit. In the old days, the slow speed of the Spit didn't matter much. Just a little bit of alt advantage, just enough to bring you upto 500~600 yards distance and bam, easy kills. It wasn't uncommon seeing people land some 10~20 kills in a single sortie with planes armed with either Hispanos or 50cals (or both!) back then.

 But anyways, the hitting distances in the game are still more than twice of that in real life. This means people who are fighting planes like the Spitfire has to always reserve enough E to stay at least 400~500 yards away from it at all times - especially if you want to drag it into a vertical and grab a decisve advantage over it.

 But what if 200 yards was enough? What if being over 200 yards was enough to stop worrying about "sprays" or "sniper shots"? Then I'd bet the Spitfire wouldn't be hated this much. Getting inside of 400 yards isn't so hard with any Spitfire in the game. However, getting really close, inside 200 yards, isn't so easy in Spitfires against much faster planes.

 If that be the case then I think the Spitfire wouldn't be so much as popular as it is now. What's the use of a superior maneuvering plane, if it still isn't fast enough to really bring yourself into optimum firing range?

[Bronk]

I'm not sure Kweassa.
When you factor in Lag  that 600 shot might have been 400-500 depending on lag. I know that you're on the other side of the pacific so I assume lag times for you should be significant.

I can only speak for myself but most of my kills are 200 out. So I assume on the other guys front end I  might appear to be between 200-400 possibly in high lag  circumstances 600.

I wont get into different gun performances in game because that's another minefield.


Bronk

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Krusty
You take any pilot that's decent (not even "good") from any other plane and put him in a spitfire, and he becomes a god, killing left and right. You take any decent pilot from a spitfire and put it in any other plane and he will become the lowest of the greenhorn newbies.  

Not true.

I've flown mostly Spit XVI's since they were introduced.  My K/D is usually slightly over 1 (1.3 or so) in a Spit XVI.  Over the past few camps I've been flying other planes.  Now this is just off the top of my head but my K/D in other planes is much higher (almost 2 in FM2, 3 in Spit V, 4-5 in Hurri IIC, 4 in TA152H, 2 in P-51D, 2 in P-51B, 4 in FW190-A8, etc., etc., etc.).  Don't believe me?  Go look at my expanded stats.

The Spit XVI isn't the easy button you all think it is.

The P-51D, FW190-D9 and others are faster.  The Hurri's, Spit V, FM2, N1K and others turn better.  The 190's roll better.  Some of the ME109's climb better and the Spit XVI almost holds onto E too well.  It's easier to pull into a blackout if your not careful than any other plane I've flown.  The XVI, like other Spits is also fragile.  It can't take many hits in a fight.  The fuel load is relatively small and, while it's got a deadly gun package, the ammo clip is smaller.  People also become over-confident in a Spit XVI, willing to engage in fights that maybe they shouldn't be in.  Finally, it's always got a target on it's tail.  People LOVE to shoot down Spit XVI's.

What the XVI is is a well balanced machine.  It's not the best at anything but very very good at everything.  It can B'n'Z as well as it can T'n'B but you still have to be careful in your match-ups and be well aware of your opponents strengths.  It (as I mentioned above) holds E like no other plane so you have to know how to control it but if (when) you bring your guns to bear, look out opponent.

[Hawco]

My 2 cents worth here, I actually think the spit 9 is way better than the 16, escpecially at 15k+, might be wrong (and I probably am) but it just feels a better aircraft than the 16.
The only time I ever really have to worry at 15k+ spitwise is when a 14 or a 9 show up at that alt

[Angus]

The Spit IX starts shining above 20K.
And low alt, the XVI is A KILLER, - as in real life. Decently fast, good accelerating, turns well, packs a punch and rolls well, climbs well too! Mediocre? On a 1v1, equal merge, low level, not many can beat it.

[humble]

like you said "decently fast, good acc, good turn".... like any plane its the pilot who matters most. I probalby can beat 80% of the spit XVI drivers in a 1 on 1 at any alt in a hog. Those I cant I'm not gonna beat in anything else....i'll beat em in an F6F or C-205 also....

Well flown Ki-84 will eat up a 16 so will a 38....yak totally owns it. The real key here are you fighting a duel or just lilling. The spitty will win a "duel" but if you take away the "dueling rules" the spitty wont see anything after the "merge".

Now obviously pilot skill is the big variable, a real good spit driver will get a few overshoots. The hispano's certainly can reach out and touch you...but thats only way the spitty wins...

[SKJohn]

Originally posted by Serenity
Im basing this on the fact that:

1) no plane can hover upside down, doing 50 mph TOPS and losing no altitude

2) No propeller plane can take off, climb 10,000 feet, all the while accelerating to 500mph in under 60 seconds

3) No propeller plane with the weight of a Spitfire and an engine of that era can begin an 80 degree climb at 120mph and reach 360mph IN the climb while still accelerating.

I have seen a Spitfire XVI do all of the above things.

I think somebody has taken the "High" out of Aces High a little too seriously . . .
Unless you have films I call Bull$hi+ on all three.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Unless the Spitfire pilot really don't know his stuff, it doesn't matter how good the P-38 pilot is.  He's going to lose.  If you don't believe me, we can arrange a duel in my server.  It's pretty much lag-free and people respect the duel in there.  I'll fly Spitfire Mark XIV (which I've never flown before) and you can fly the P-38.  You will lose.

Not true.  An average Spitfire driver only has a slightly better chance of surviving than a new, untested Spitfire driver against an experienced good stick in a P-38.  Why is that you may wonder?  The experienced P-38 driver is going to know not only the strengths and weaknesses of his plane but of the Spitfire as well.  For example, if I was to stumble across an average pilot in a Spitfire, I'm going to keep the fight fast, above 300mph IAS so my better high speed maneuverability comes into play and use the vertical as much as possible.  Or, if the fight is going to be an Angles fight off the merge, then I will try and get the angles fight as slow as possible, below the 150mph IAS range so my better slow/stall speed handling over the Spitfire comes into play.

This is something that is lost on the average to new pilot.  All they know is that the Spitfire can turn but they don't know it's weaknesses and that is something the experienced pilot will use against the average pilot.  He's not going to know that the optimal speed range to turn fight in a Spitfire is at medium speeds.  He's not going to know the P-38 peforms better in the vertical than his Spitfire, etc...

That is why 99% of the time the experienced P-38 driver will beat the average Spitfire driver.


ack-ack

[Movie]

BOTTOM LINE SPITFIRE CAN OWN JUST ABOUT ALL TYPES OF PLANES. ESPECIALLY 109 WHICH IS MY FAV TO SHOOT DOWN. DOES ANY 1 HAVE A GROUP PICTURE OF THE 71ST EAGLE SQUADRON?