National Right to Carry

[Patches1]

Second Amendment:

" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

This is a "Right", under the Constitution of the United States, not a  "privilege"; I shouldn't need a "license" to Bear Arms.

Rights and Privileges are different and need to be understood. For example, under the Second Amendement to the Constitution of the United States (1791), I have the "Right" to keep and bear arms. Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States do I have the "Right" to drive an automobile, and thus, States may require an individual to obtain a "License" in order to operate a motor vehicle within the State. This "license" is a privilege, not a Right.

Rights are Guaranteed under the Constitution of The United States.

Privileges may require Licenses and are not guaranteed under the Constitution of The United States.

So, why do I need to petition the State to obtain a license to carry a conceled arm when the Constitution guarantees my Right to bear said arm?

By the way, just what does "a well regulated militia" have to do with "the right of the people to keep and bear arms"?

Patches

[Hap]

Originally posted by Patches1
Second Amendment:

" A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

Patches, what militia are you part of?  Is it also well regulated?



militia
/milish/

  • noun 1 a military force raised from the civilian population to supplement a regular army in an emergency. 2 a rebel force opposing a regular army.

  — ORIGIN Latin, ‘military service’.

Hope the Day Goes Well,

hap

[lazs2]

hap...  I know you fear firearms but...  what part about "the people" don't you understand?  Do you think that "the people" means something different in the second than in any other part of the constitution?   Are you willing to use such a loose definition on the rest of document when it comes to "the people"?

How are you gonna form a militia out of citizens who are not armed?

Are you saying the second gives the military the right to be armed?  that is silly.. why would they need the right to be armed?   Are you saying the second is there to give the government rights?

The amendment says that in order to assure that you can raise a well regulated (well armed and good shots) militia (every able bodied man IS the militia)...  that in order to assure that...  THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

nashwan....  thinking you hit someone is not the same as hitting them.   If that were not true then in wars there would be about 50 times more casualties... the planes shot down in WWII would equal about 10 times more than were ever built.   I know you have never been shooting so you wouldn't understand how it is possible to think you hit something when you didn't...  

simple stuff really.

lazs

[Shuffler]

*if "guns don't kill people, people kill people" then how do "guns stop crime"? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well let's see.... you pull in your driveway like a fella here did the other night. A car pulled in behind him and trapped him....... he had no gun... the crook did.... the crook killed the guy. The guy with no gun had no chance. He did not put up a fight or resist... the crook just shot him. It may not stop crime... but it evens the odds to carry.


I care enough about my family to have a licensed carry, my wife does too.
If it comes down to it... I WILL have a CHANCE to live and so will my family.

My regular carry is a Springfield XD Tactical in .45 with 2 13 rnd clips.
My Wife's carry is either her XD .40 4 inch or her little S&W 38 wheel gun

[Gunston]

Originally posted by Hap
Patches, what militia are you part of?  Is it also well regulated?



militia
/milish/

  • noun 1 a military force raised from the civilian population to supplement a regular army in an emergency. 2 a rebel force opposing a regular army.

  — ORIGIN Latin, ‘military service’.

Hope the Day Goes Well,

hap

Yep by reading the following quotes by Jefferson, Washington, Madison and Adams it's pretty clear they didn't mean the "Average Joe" should have the right to own a gun...right.


        “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”
Thomas Jefferson quotes (American 3rd US President (1801-09). Author of the Declaration of Independence. 1762-1826)



“Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government...”
  Thomas Jefferson quote


“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
  Thomas Jefferson quote


“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
  Thomas Jefferson quote


“A bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inferences”
  Thomas Jefferson quote


“It is to secure our rights that we resort to government at all.”
  Thomas Jefferson quote


“The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.”
  George Washington quote


“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”
  George Washington quote


“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.”
  George Washington quote


Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms”
  James Madison quote

“A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.”
  James Madison quote


“Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense.”
  John Adams quote

[Hap]

Gunston, are you and Patches the same person?

Where'd that other stuff come from?  

I've never met anyone who is member of a Militia.  Maybe some of you are.

That's one reason I was asking.  The other was to discover if Militias generally or specifically try to form themselves along Constitutional lines.

Gunston, do you consider yourself "tyrannized" by America's government?

Regards,

hap

[Sabre]

Originally posted by Hap
Gunston, do you consider yourself "tyrannized" by America's government?

QUOTE]

Occasionally, and more and more with each passing year, though I can't speak for Gunston.  I'll give you an example with just three letters: "IRS"

[Toad]

LOL! This stuff is so often repeated by those that haven't studied the 2nd and who have just listened to the "anti" side of it.

Hap, you may well be part of the militia! Scary, eh?

US CODE

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311 Prev | Next

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes


(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

So, along Constitutional lines, there's one heck of a lot of people in the militia, isn't there?

However, the whole gotta be in a militia argument is a red herring.

The Second Amendment's two clauses complement each other: guaranteeing the right of the people to keep and bear arms ensures that a well regulated militia will be available.

Like all of the other Amendments in the Bill of Rights, the 2nd is an individual right.  In our Constitution, only individuals have "rights," and only governmental units have "powers."  The 2nd is clearly in the Bill of Rights.

Also, check the history of the writing of the 2nd. You'll find the first version was

The original text[12] of what was to become the Second Amendment, as brought to the floor to the first session of the first congress of the U.S. House of Representatives was:

“ The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.

There's absolutely no doubt about the intent of the 2nd; there's only people who try to twist it into something it is not.

[Patches1]

Well researched, Toad!

The Second stands on its own.

[Xargos]

People who carry tend to carry themselves in a way that most criminals can sense it's better not to mess with them.  Alot of times when you carry your life was saved and you never even knew it.

[Gunston]

Originally posted by Hap
Gunston, are you and Patches the same person?

Where'd that other stuff come from?  

I've never met anyone who is member of a Militia.  Maybe some of you are.

That's one reason I was asking.  The other was to discover if Militias generally or specifically try to form themselves along Constitutional lines.

Gunston, do you consider yourself "tyrannized" by America's government?

Regards,

hap

No I'm not Patches
I assume by other stuff you mean the quotes. If so there are lots of websites where you can find quotes those came from here

http://thinkexist.com/

I am not a member of an organized militia, but as presented earlier all able bodied men should be ready to come to the defense of the country should they be needed. And I would say that should be viewed as "from all enemies foreign or domestic"

I don't quite think I would say "I'm tyrannized" yet but I do believe the government has shown steady movement in that direction. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I am less free than my father was at my age and my 12 year old son is less free than I was at his age. I shudder to think how far the nanny state will have progressed by the time he is my age (I think Orwell was only off by about 30 years)

[Curval]

“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.”
George Washington quote

Which is ironic given that GW lost his and had false teeth.

[storch]

Originally posted by Curval
“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.”
George Washington quote

Which is ironic given that GW lost his and had false teeth.

this is how ugly rumors always start.  GW knew exactly where all his natural teeth were, they just weren't in his gums.

[nirvana]

We can only shoot intruders here if they pose a threat or something.  In other words you can't put a spray of buckshot in their back because they aren't posing a threat, they are running away.  I know they have a new law called the "Make My Day Better" law, it allows you to use the same reasoning as a house but with a business or a car.  Opponents are against the use of firearms for protecting a car though...

[Shamus]

Guess I cant carry, I'm too old for the milita.

shamus