Universal National Service Act of 2007

[Sabre]

The bill is garbage.  I don't believe service should be manditory, but I do see merits in requiring it for full citizenship (ala Heinlin's "Starship Troopers").  Military service shoud remain voluntary, and selective (i.e. with high standards of admission).  Even if you don't tie the voting franchise to it (though at the very least I would make it a requirement to hold public office), there should be very significant benefits to volunteering, such as funding for higher education, access to low interest home loans, permanent tax credits, and perhaps even early access to apply for social security benefits.  I believe it MUST be voluntary, or else it is no better than indentured servitude.  I also believe that if you volunteered under such a system, you could not be turned down; i.e. the government would have to find you something you could do for your service commitment, regardless of your physical/mental abilities.  A minimum of two years would be sufficient.  Failure to fulfill your tour, start to finish with no break in service (short of some catastrophic health reason), would entail no punishment; however, it would permanently disqualify you from the benefits of service...period.

Bottom line is, people in this country (USA) do not in general appreciate the blessings of citizenship, or the sacrifice that created and sustained our liberty.

[lasersailor184]

In Starship Troopers, everyone who volunteered was able to do those things.  Even the dumbest person in the world could earn citizenship if they volunteered and stayed in for the alotted time.  They always found *something* for you to do.

[Sabre]

Originally posted by john9001
coast guard is in the dept of homeland security.

That is correct. In 1967, the CG moved to Department of Transportation. Then in 2003 it was transferred to the Department of Homeland Security.  However, it's members fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), and during time of war can come directly under the control of the DoD.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Sabre
Bottom line is, people in this country (USA) do not in general appreciate the blessings of citizenship, or the sacrifice that created and sustained our liberty.

I agree.  I'm surprised so many are against a mandatory draft.  I really don't get it.  

Sacrificing a few years of one's life to serve in our Armed Forces sounds great to me.

Giving one's self to something greater and more important than one's self is praiseworthy.

All the Best,

hap

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Hornet33
FYI the Coast Guard is a branch of the military....not civil service.

Thought Coast Guard still served 2 masters, Department of Transportation and Defense Department, while also involved with Customs and Immigration, DEA, Homeland Security, ad infinitum.....

[Sikboy]

Artist/Band: Ochs Phil

Lyrics for Song: Draft Dodger Rag

Lyrics for Album: There But for Fortune

Oh, I'm just a typical American boy from a typical American town
I believe in God and Senator Dodd and a-keepin' old Castro down
And when it came my time to serve I knew "better dead than red"
But when I got to my old draft board, buddy, this is what I said:

CHORUS
Sarge, I'm only eighteen, I got a ruptured spleen
And I always carry a purse
I got eyes like a bat, and my feet are flat, and my asthma's getting worse
Yes, think of my career, my sweetheart dear, and my poor old invalid aunt
Besides, I ain't no fool, I'm a-goin' to school
And I'm working in a DEE-fense plant

I've got a dislocated disc and a wracked up back
I'm allergic to flowers and bugs
And when the bombshell hits, I get epileptic fits
And I'm addicted to a thousand drugs
I got the weakness woes, I can't touch my toes
I can hardly reach my knees
And if the enemy came close to me
I'd probably start to sneeze

I'm only eighteen, I got a ruptured spleen
And I always carry a purse
I got eyes like a bat, and my feet are flat, and my asthma's getting worse
Yes, think of my career, my sweetheart dear, and my poor old invalid aunt
Besides, I ain't no fool, I'm a-goin' to school
And I'm working in a DEE-fense plant

Ooh, I hate Chou En Lai, and I hope he dies,
Onething you gotta see
That someone's gotta go over there
And that someone isn't me
So I wish you well, Sarge, give 'em Hell!
Kill me a thousand or so
And if you ever get a war without blood and gore
I'll be the first to go

[Dos Equis]

How about a tarriff or force the world bank IMF to fund Blackwater. They could become like WalMart, except for mercs. And without greeters at the door.

When the next hurricane comes through and displaces all those casino workers, Blackwater can just set up tents and an obstacle course. If you make it through the course in good time, you get shipped on a plane for basic training. Automatic $50k/yr. No health insurance, but they do provide a nice first aid kit. Then, into the streets of Baghdad or Tehran with you!

Solves the overpopulation problem, avoids the draft, allows shareholders to profit. It's all good! Maybe a reality tv show could get tacked on for recruitment purposes.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Shamus
You must have read about that...If you partook personally wouldn't that make you a socialist?

shamus

It's socialism if I demand that other people pay for my education.  Taking advantage of it just makes me smart...



Just kidding.


With my family's tax bracket status, the majority of my tuition is paid for by loans.  I'm not going to complain if the government wants to give me grants to go to school.  But then again, I'm not going to ask that they do or whine if they pull them.

[DoctorYO]

Well Rangel is trying to make a statement* more so than pass this bill..  in any event this bill is clearly unconstitutional..

Know your rights...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Now looking at the above, unless you have been duly convicted, or some form of voluntary contract has been formed, any type of conscription is illegal..  (note the terms...  it says "shall exist"  thats very clear..  and cannot be rebuttaled thru ambiguity (some may claim the scotus decision in the early 1900's, but when no basis is given with exception to opinion**, that decision could be fought to be revisited very easily today)

Now whether you agree with this or dont, its on the books ... infact we fought a civil war over this topic..

IMO if the clowns want to force conscription, then go about the proper way; amend the constitution, then make your bill...

Until that happens..  someone comes a barking draft..  dont get mad..  go on the record (certified mail) explaining your rights..  (not priviledge) if ******* pursues, sue...  that simple..


PS:  people will say well vietnam there was a draft etc.. korea, ww2 etc..  this was all before the internet and self education,(most people were poor and signed their name X, brave new world now..) most cases were fought on objector status as opposed to constitutional rights of non slavery.... aka 13th admendment.  If this was revisted as it was in Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918) today...  it would be clearly overturned..

* - Rangels trying to point out the uneven demographic of todays volunteer force, not force a draft...

** - heres the opinion for yourself..

"Finally, as we are unable to conceive upon what theory the exaction by government from the citizen of the performance of his supreme and noble duty of contributing to the defense of the rights and honor of the nation as the result of a war declared by the great representative body of the people can be said to be the imposition of involuntary servitude in violation of the prohibitions of the Thirteenth Amendment, we are constrained to the conclusion that the contention to that effect is refuted by its mere statement."



"Supreme and Noble duty statement" sounds a whole alot like opinion of the court and not the law.. (nowhere in the constituition does it claim noble duty from its citizens) the highest law of the land says no in the form of the 13th admendment..  this is bolstered by the 9th admendment which closes the door on opinion based power grabs like the Arver Vs United States.   Do we follow the constitution or some man pulling the power grab over illiterates back in 1918 ...   you decide...

[lasersailor184]

Interesting Doctor.  I'll have to look that up later.