stoney, there is no spin, the plane sits still, INVERTED, and floats to the ground. there is no spin, it just sits upside down. no plane falls like a brick upside down, else it would of course be a plane shaped brick, not a combat aircraft
It's the same thing Biggles. What you are arguing about the details is somewhat equivalent of arguing semantics.
The term 'spin' points out to a plane which enters a state of aggravated stall. The loss of airflow diminishes all normal function of flight surfaces as they cannot effect the attitude of the plane in that state, and the plane starts a spinning momentum initiated by any variety of underlying causes including the angles of each of the roll/pitch/yaw axis, center of gravity, or torque.
The most frequent state of spin is witnessed when a plane stalls out during a dangerously harsh turn with high AoA and steep bank angle - the ensuing stall dips one of the wings, which subsequently results in a rolling motion while normall airflow is lost over the wings. Hence, the plane shows a continuous spinning motion in the roll axis while it falls nose-down towards the earth. Since in this case, the plane is falling nose down in a favorable AoA to the direction of travel, soon the airflow is somewhat recovered and the aileron starts working again. Thus a plane recovers pretty easily from this state.
However, in the case of the inverted flat "spin", the stall motion is aggravated as the plane goes belly up, the AoA is completely off from the plane's direction of travel, and soon the elevators and ailerons become useless as the plane starts a slow spin on its yaw axis which is initiated by torque. The stable nature of the plane with a good center of gravity now backfires - and the plane sort of reaches a new "equilibrium" in that new, belly-up state as it starts falling downwards. It effectively becomes a "frisbee".
The inverted flat spins of AH you mention, is exactly the same thing. Presumably, a slight difference between real life factors and in-game physics is the cause for the minmal difference in attitude. Whereas real-life inverted flat spin would show signs of a true 'spin' as the plane starts rotating on its yaw axis, the AH planes either do not generate enough torque or the momentum caused by the torque is somehow negated, and it falls inverted and flat, but no real sign of spinning motion except a somewhat oscillating motion both in the yaw and pitch axis while it falls flat. However, I personally have experienced a real inverted flat spin in some other planes, so the case might be purely situational.
The point is this, Major, I've never seen other sim games enter a warplane into a state like this. Others may have witnessed inverted flat spins in AW or WB, but personally, to me AH is the only game I've seen this happen. IL2 has a quite frequent case of normal flat spins in planes such as the P-38, but I've never seen an inverted state of a flat spin there. This "bug" in the flight model you claim, IMO, is actually a testament of how realistic the AH flight model is.
.....
One interesting tid-bit, is that there something greatly common with the list of some AH planes that show similar cases of inverted flat spins in the game.
The Mossie, some Spits, Bf 110, and the P-38s, Ki-84, Ta152 - these are all planes with a relatively large and flat wing/fuselage surface when viewed from top/bottom. Compare the ratio of the wings and the fuselage surface in these planes. All of them have a distinctively large and flat wings, as compared to a short or slender fuselage which is proportionately quite small to the wings. They are all excellent turning planes quite frequently pushed into extremes. They all have great elevator authority which allows them to pull high G turns at speed - which also means can be pushed easily into accelerated stalls by causing a drastic change in AoA while flying at high speed.
I don't exactly consider it strange to see them entering an inverted flat spin. Most usually these planes try to retain great speeds in the MA, as they are not the 'dragster' type of super planes and the only chance of shooting someone down is by aproaching with speed. Combine that with the fact that they have light elevator authority(except the Ki84) and an inexperienced pilot may very well pull the stick too hard during a steep turn. The AoA will go over its boundaries for normal flight and the plane will stall out. The bank angle is already high since it was in a steep turn - which means a stalling 'wing dip' will cause the plane to go inverted. The AoA freaks out and 'tumbles' the plane as it loses airflow. ?
(Although, in the case of the Ta152 and the Ki-84, the unrecoverable spins only happen due to a failed attempt to recover the plane's control in time when it has entered an elongated hammerhead)
It's not the type of stall they are showing that should be questioned. Rather, what is to be questioned is;
"Are those common factors in the above mentioned planes, really so effective that it is enough to cause inverted flat spins so frequently than compared to other planes?"[EDIT/ps] Pyro posted right before me, but I can see his answers might be source for another confusion.
Pyro, by saying 'unintentional' what does it exactly mean? Does it mean;
a) The fact that only some of the mentioned planes entering "inverted flat spins" is unintentional
or
b) The FM portraying the "inverted flat spin" itself, is unintentional
??
