Author Topic: Piracy: A general discussion  (Read 7614 times)

Offline mipoikel

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2007, 03:19:27 AM »
I have bought DRM protected music from internet, so far I have not had any problems with it.

Service providers rules are very easy:

I have right to burn music to CDs, but not more than 5 CD's.

I have right to install music to 5 mobile devices.

I have right to make back up copies under rules stated earlier.


basicly, if you burn files to CD, DRM protection expires and it is up to you if you use them right or wrong.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2007, 03:32:17 AM »
See Rule #7
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 06:59:40 AM by Skuzzy »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline mipoikel

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2007, 03:59:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
See Rule #7


Just put the CD in and press "play" :D
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 07:00:00 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2007, 04:52:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
Just put the CD in and press "play" :D


Umm.. it only has a harddrive and usb/firewire connections.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Chilli

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Anyone keeping score?
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2007, 09:53:28 AM »
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:rolleyes:   I say take it to DA   :noid    My money is on the guy with the most keystrokes so far:aok  

Just making light of an interesting conversation, gone a bit heated (like a moth to the flame -- here I am :p   I know you are, but what am I  !!!!)

Offline Krusty

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2007, 01:32:13 PM »
If I weren't ignoring Mini-D, I'd notice he just compared digital media to solid corporeal objects (a vase).


You buy a CD. What are you getting?


A flat disc? No. You're getting digital 1s an 0s on the disc. The disc is just how they're stored. It's the box package.

The very nature of digital media is hard to define. It's not a matter of "one copy" -- because it takes no effort, no additional material to make a copy. You're not purchasing a DVD, you're not purchasing a CD-ROM. These things by themselves are glorified coasters for your frosty beverage.

You're purchasing the right to watch and listen to the material on them. If the coaster gets scratched, you still have that media, which you paid for the right to listen to.

The fact that it doesn't exist except in a series of 1s and 0s means that conventional ownership and copyright laws don't apply, and many people have acknowledged this fact.

How can you own the rights to a series of 1s and 0s? You can own the rights to a song, to the distribution of CDs that have that song on them, but you can't own the rights of digital bits that don't really exist in the physical world. All they are, is a collection of electrons.

You can't own these. You can't copyright these.


Oh, and P.S. if media companies wanted to stop piracy they'd stop sending fresh just-printed reels of movies to Hong Kong. They'd cut off the piracy hubs of SE Asia that produce 99.99999% of all pirated or bootlegged material. Piracy is cut in half almost overnight. Why don't they? Because they're greedy SOBs and the few million (drop in the bucket) they get from sending the films over there in the first place is worth the hundreds of millions loss from piracy, to their math.

Offline LePaul

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2007, 05:18:37 PM »
Interesting point...the amount of cracked/copied movies overseas dwarfs what the average user will ever do.  I wonder why RIAA hasn't had more luck shutting down the Asian copy houses better?

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2007, 09:01:39 PM »
I'd imagine because it's out of their control. Change the way hardware plays these things and it might have an impact.

I've heard the 1's and 0's argument too many times krusty. It's irrelevant. You are paying for a DvD. If it is damaged, you've lost it. If those 1's and 0's on that CD are damaged, they're lost. This is the same with anything you purchase.

You've created a different set of criteria and expectations for this particular product. You expect the people selling it to conform to your expectations. I think you are being obtuse.

Offline Krusty

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2007, 09:14:22 PM »
I'm not alone it seems.

Offline republic

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« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2007, 10:03:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
You are paying for a DvD. If it is damaged, you've lost it. If those 1's and 0's on that CD are damaged, they're lost. This is the same with anything you purchase.


I've always understood the EULA's to mean that I have the right to use the data rather than anything governing the physical object.  Maybe this only applies to software?  Otherwise, if the EULA only covers the physical object...I could use the one cd/dvd I bought and install the software on every computer I come in contact with.

Despite all the arguing over the fine points of DRM, the fact remains...  Those who are going to steal....will steal.  Anything created by a man, can be undone by a man.  The excess and intrusion of DRM only hurts the consumer...not the thief.

Because of the inherent vulnerability of something that cannot be seen or touched (data), I should have the right to backup any software/digital media I purchase...  If the software publishers/record labels don't give me that right...I am thankful for the "1337 hax0rs" that do.  :)
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Offline Mini D

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2007, 11:50:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by republic
Despite all the arguing over the fine points of DRM, the fact remains...  Those who are going to steal....will steal.  Anything created by a man, can be undone by a man.  The excess and intrusion of DRM only hurts the consumer...not the thief.
What an interesting thing to say. Do you honestly believe that everyone downloading music on the internet would still be doing it if it were made more difficult? Can't you concede that the ease with which it is accomplished can lend to an increase in the rate at which it is accomplished?

There's a difference between breaking into someone's house and stealing something and seeing someone drop something... not saying anything and then picking it up. It  has to do with opportunity. It has a considerable ammount to do with opportunity.

As for the "why don't they do more about china" "I see I'm not alone statements"... that's pretty much the "what about them defense." Desperation breeds rhetoric.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2007, 01:05:27 AM »
My "I'm not alone" statement was meant to illustrate that you are being obtuse more than I. Sadly, you couldn't see this as you just ignore anything anybody else says if it doesn't agree with you. History is full of people like that.

Offline Ghosth

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2007, 06:48:05 AM »
First off stealing & theft are the wrong words to use in this discussion.

As whats being lost is not the object, but the $$$ the supposed sales of the object would have brought.

Its like if I had a magic wand that could "scan" your car, and then reproduce one for me. I'm not "stealing" yours, you've lost nothing. The car company maintains they've lost revenue. But have they? Chances are I wouldn't have bought that car at any price. But if I can "scan" one for free, sure, why not.

The car dealer didn't lose money because I never would have paid for that new car in the first place. The person who's car I scanned didn't lose anything.

So how is it theft?

Offline Mini D

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2007, 07:42:55 AM »
Quote
Its like if I had a magic wand that could "scan" your car, and then reproduce one for me. I'm not "stealing" yours, you've lost nothing. The car company maintains they've lost revenue. But have they? Chances are I wouldn't have bought that car at any price. But if I can "scan" one for free, sure, why not.

The car dealer didn't lose money because I never would have paid for that new car in the first place. The person who's car I scanned didn't lose anything.
Thanks for posting that. You have just summed up how grossly rediculous logic has gotten on this subject... though I don't think you've intended quite that way.

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2007, 07:44:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
My "I'm not alone" statement was meant to illustrate that you are being obtuse more than I. Sadly, you couldn't see this as you just ignore anything anybody else says if it doesn't agree with you. History is full of people like that.
I'm sorry I misinterpreted a vague 4 word statement.

I'm being obtuse by not to accepting that the RIAA is evil, Microsoft is Evil and anyone that wants to protect their product is evil. Gotcha.