Author Topic: Piracy: A general discussion (Read 7517 times)

F1Bomber · « **Reply #90 on:** February 21, 2007, 07:49:03 AM »

This is very much an argument between two different opposing views. One the content provider needing reliability that the content they provide cannot be duplicated in any way or form to insure their revenue stream. Then the counter argument of the consumer requiring easier flexibility with their media and home entertainment systems.

lot of the discussion hasn't been on legal position of the consumer nor the legal position of the content providers. Most of the discussion is simply heated political and emotional energy of the posters. Nothing is actually going to come out of a discussion. Unless people start posting their sources of information and facts about the restrictions DRM imposes. The only person i've seen who has done this has been skuzzy!

That being said, the consumer will dictate what they find acceptable with the new technology. No amount of discussion even through mini D may be wrong/correct is going to change that fact. You're always going to have different viewpoints of the topic.

Mini D · « **Reply #91 on:** February 21, 2007, 08:00:01 AM »

Since you're analogy is too funny Ghost, maybe you could ask yourself one simple question: If you had a device like that, would you ever purchase any car again? Would you purchase anything ever again?

republic · « **Reply #92 on:** February 21, 2007, 08:32:09 AM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
What an interesting thing to say. Do you honestly believe that everyone downloading music on the internet would still be doing it if it were made more difficult? Can't you concede that the ease with which it is accomplished can lend to an increase in the rate at which it is accomplished?

My point is, that for those who want to steal...it will ALWAYS be easy. It doesn't take but a couple of google searches to break every DRM in existence...and it will always be that way.

DRM isn't evil, there should be DRM of some kind. But we shouldn't clobber every unsuspecting consumer over the head to TRY and prevent a pirate who can (eventually) circumvent any DRM.

There's a difference between acceptable DRM (a cd key) and intrusive DRM (starforce).

Vulcan · « **Reply #93 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:20:20 PM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
I'd imagine because it's out of their control. Change the way hardware plays these things and it might have an impact.

Hmm mini d I thought you were an expert on such things. In fact I've even mentioned the solution the movie industry came up with... and it wasn't DRM. It was R5 DVD's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R5_%28bootleg%29

In both Eastern Europe and Asia the cost of movies is significantly less than in most other places (afaik R5 isn't used in Asia yet).

Mini D · « **Reply #94 on:** February 21, 2007, 03:28:51 PM »

Region coding? LOL! OK. You're the expert. I'm just the one showing you an expert can have his head up his ass.

Kev367th · « **Reply #95 on:** February 21, 2007, 03:52:18 PM »

DVD region codes are worthless.

Almost all computer DVD drives and most DVD players can be unlocked to play any region coded DVDs.

Doesn't that just help prove the point though?
No matter what you do, and to what expense you go, people will find a way around it.

Who did region coded DVDs affect the most?
Your regular user, not the pirates.

Having lived in the U.S. now for 6 years I have built up quite an extensive DVD collection.
If I was to move back to the U.K. all my DVD's would be useless.
I've paid for them, and I doubt they would exchange them for European coded DVD's.
Luckily enough I have a multi system/region/voltage DVD player, also a multi system/voltage television.

Vulcan · « **Reply #96 on:** February 21, 2007, 08:04:50 PM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
Region coding? LOL! OK. You're the expert. I'm just the one showing you an expert can have his head up his ass.

Mini D. If you are going to post in this thread and act all high and mighty - it'd be nice if you could click the link and read what R5 refers too. It merely got named that because it occurs in region 5. The movie industries answer was not regionalisation but significantly cheaper pricing and fast releases to combat piracy. Not DRM.

So, maybe you'd like to pull your head out of your backside or are you just here to read your own posts because you like "the sound of your own voice"?

Mini D · « **Reply #97 on:** February 21, 2007, 08:31:54 PM »

How did DvD region coding affect regular users again? A regular user buys a DvD in china and tries to play it in the U.S.?

I know what region coding is Vulcan. I'm no expert on it. I'm no expert on DRM either. I'm going to maintain you aren't an expert on it either seing as how the OS that uses it was just introduced and doesn't seem to be using much of it yet.

I have heard how much damage it WILL do... How horrible it WILL be... how many rights it WILL take away... how NONE of your hardware will work with it. I'm still laughing at all of that.

Kev367th · « **Reply #98 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:28:44 PM »

DVD players coded to a specific region will only play DVD's from that region.

So if you go on holiday to Japan (region 2) and buy a DVD and bring it to the U.S. (region 1), it will not play on a DVD player coded specifically for region 1.

Luckilly enough most DVD players and drives can be unlocked to be play any region DVD.

Region coding was 'supposed' to protect copyright and distribution rights.

HOWEVER - There is now Regional Coding Enhancement which prevents selected region 1 DVD's from playing on unlocked players.
This only affects region 1 DVD's (US and Canada) and no others.

Vulcan · « **Reply #99 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:30:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
How did DvD region coding affect regular users again? A regular user buys a DvD in china and tries to play it in the U.S.?

I know what region coding is Vulcan. I'm no expert on it. I'm no expert on DRM either. I'm going to maintain you aren't an expert on it either seing as how the OS that uses it was just introduced and doesn't seem to be using much of it yet.

I have heard how much damage it WILL do... How horrible it WILL be... how many rights it WILL take away... how NONE of your hardware will work with it. I'm still laughing at all of that.

Ummmm did you even read what I posted... again? Or do you just see a couple of words and start blabbering?

Mini D · « **Reply #100 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:08:00 PM »

Actually... I did. Did you read the site you linked? Cheap fast releases that weren't copyable to American markets. Where were they combatting piracy again?

Mini D · « **Reply #101 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:11:47 PM »

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Originally posted by Kev367th
DVD players coded to a specific region will only play DVD's from that region.

That is obvious.

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So if you go on holiday to Japan (region 2) and buy a DVD and bring it to the U.S. (region 1), it will not play on a DVD player coded specifically for region 1.

If you buy a DvD in Japan, you're paying twice as much for it just to bring it back. That said, how many people do you honestly think this impacts? The regular user? Cripes... you had to take a $10k trip just to find a way to make this one work.

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Luckilly enough most DVD players and drives can be unlocked to be play any region DVD.

By the regular user? I don't think so.

I seriously doubt most of you know what a "regular user" is anymore.

Kev367th · « **Reply #102 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:23:18 PM »

OK MiniD -
What if, as in my case I want a DVD that is only available in the U.K. and can get a family member to send it to me?
It's a legal store bought version of the movie, yet without a region free player I couldn't watch it.

I didn't say that they might have gone to Japan just to buy a DVD, but what if they decided to pick a couple up?

Oh btw - If your hardware isn't HDCP compliant you will lose 75% of the possible display resolution when watching HD content (IF it shows anything at all).
Suppose you'd be more than happy if you bought a 2Ghz CPU and it only ran at 500Mhz.

Couldn't be the whole thing is money driven as opposed to anti-piracy could it?
Annual licensing fee for HDCP = $15,000.

Mini D · « **Reply #103 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:43:06 PM »

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Originally posted by Kev367th
OK MiniD -
What if, as in my case I want a DVD that is only available in the U.K. and can get a family member to send it to me?
It's a legal store bought version of the movie, yet without a region free player I couldn't watch it.

This is a "regular user" story again?

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Oh btw - If your hardware isn't HDCP compliant you will lose 75% of the possible display resolution when watching HD content (IF it shows anything at all).
Suppose you'd be more than happy if you bought a 2Ghz CPU and it only ran at 500Mhz.

I don't think that will be the case once things are sorted out. People seem to be insisting it will be, without really knowing since there isn't HDCP encoded DvDs yet.

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Couldn't be the whole thing is money driven as opposed to anti-piracy could it?
Annual licensing fee for HDCP = $15,000.

You are actually the first person to bring up licensing outside of the "movie studios must approve it" line. I'm very curious to see how that will play out. Though, I imagine the $15k per year for HDCP will pale in comparison to what they're paying for HD DvD and BlueRay licensing fees.

To be honest, you'd have to be half crazy to buy HD content right now. Someone's going to end up with one hell of a collection to add to their betamax and laser disc collections. It's too imature right now... and there's not a clear indication which way the battle is going.

Kev367th · « **Reply #104 on:** February 22, 2007, 12:16:25 AM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
I don't think that will be the case once things are sorted out. People seem to be insisting it will be, without really knowing since there isn't HDCP encoded DvDs yet.

Actually HDCP specifically RESTRICTS the output of HD content on non-HDCP products to DVD quality, it is hardware coded into the devices.

Also audio content is resticted to DAT quality on non HDCP devices.

This isn't open to question, it is part of the HDCP requirements/standards and vendors applying for a license MUST agree to the limits or they won't get a license.

Looking at the list of licensed companies up to now, at $15k a pop per year, it's hardly a drop in the ocean.

http://www.digital-cp.com/list/

[edit] Should add - It is up to the source (Movie companies etc) to decide whether you get either 480p (DVD quality), or NOTHING when viewing with non HDCP equipment.