Author Topic: hitech 163 to gamey pls fix  (Read 2755 times)

Offline SkyRock

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7758
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2007, 07:18:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
I didn't ask you to attack the uncapturable , Me163 base, i'll fly it anytime i have a chance, cuz is fun,

  Cuz the rooks had #s, we were out# bad, perk multiplier was low in rook land for sure when you shot my Me163 down, it cost me 20 something perks,that's why you got 5 perks only

 
imop Me163 should be unperked, enabled on all bases including V bases,CVs and Ports and also get a drop tank
Anyway, sorry to "hurt egos", but "ghi+me163=love",

Well if ghi flies it, it must be good for hOing!:aok

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline USCH

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1713
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2007, 07:22:01 PM »
shuting the rocket down was possable but unsafe, of the 2 fuels used one was harmless and the other would eat through human flesh on contact i have seen video on the military channel of burn victoms exposed to the fuel. flying the rocket was like straping Dine-No-Might to your rear unsafe but it got the job done quick. i am not on anyones side hear i love all countrys aircraft to there respects.

Offline soupcan

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 291
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2007, 11:47:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
The fact is that bombers are stealth weapons in this game. By the time they get into dar range and/or are spotted, they're already too high and too fast for anybody to stop them.


lmao "stealth weapons".
sounds like you haven't or don't spend much time in buffs krusty.

if you are so concerned about high buffs why don't you patrol at high alt?

<--refrains from putting in the
:cry  smilie.
Addicted since tour 62.
news in game.
http://www.415thsquad.com/

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2007, 01:12:10 AM »
Soup I've got more bomber time than I care to remember. I used to do it almost exclusively for a long time. Speed and alt will get you to a target before anybody can spot you. You can drop, turn, drop again, before anybody can get up to you.

I've had quite a few boring bombing sorties that way. Dropping from 20 to 15k is more likely to see at least 1 fighter make 1 attack before falling behind into a dead-6 trail chase. Dropping from 15 to 10k is nearly suicide, but you WILL drop on target most of the time before you die.

Offline mussie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2147
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2007, 05:06:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Best post yet!


Man if i shut off the throttle on my old GSX1100 with out closing the throttle.... then flick the kill switch back to on the resulting explosion is pretty bad...

I know this because I blew a 2x2 inch piece of my exaust can out... Made the bike sound great though :)

Offline IronDog

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2007, 09:30:55 AM »
Thing is,having a aircraft with a five minute fuel load,buzzing around for more than five minutes is wrong.Getting to the point,the 163 is the most incorrectley modeled aircraft in the set.Will it be corrected,probably not.In the simulation business,leaning towards realism will kill your player base,profits,etc. Falcon4,Silent Hunter3 would fall in this category.Leaning towards arcadish,will get you more players,money.Fighter Ace would be an example.If you took a vote on the 163 being changed,you would lose,mainly cuz HT sez so,plus the one person shooters will win every time.Aces High is the best of it's kind.Little or no competition, et al Warbirds is hanging on by a thread,sometimes breeds overconfidence,and losing touch with the players.Is this a good thing,probably not.
IronDog
475/431 Fighter Squad

Offline MajWoody

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2152
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2007, 10:06:08 AM »
From wikipedia


Rocket fuel

Hydrazine is also used as rocket fuel starting in World War II for the Messerschmitt Me 163, under name B-Stoff (hydrazine hydrate) and in a mixture with methanol (M-Stoff) and water called C-Stoff.

Hydrazine is also used as a low-power monopropellant for the maneuvering thrusters of spacecraft, and the Space Shuttle's Auxiliary Power Units. In addition, monopropellant hydrazine-fueled rocket engines are often used in terminal descent of spacecraft. A collection of such engines were used in both Viking landers as well as the Phoenix lander scheduled to launch in August 2007.

In all hydrazine monopropellant engines the hydrazine is passed by a catalyst such as iridium metal supported by high-surface-area alumina (aluminium oxide) or carbon nanofibers,[8] or more recently molybdenum nitride on alumina,[9] which causes it to decompose into ammonia, nitrogen gas, and hydrogen gas according to the following reactions:

   1. 3 N2H4 → 4 NH3 + N2
   2. N2H4 → N2 + 2 H2
   3. 4 NH3 + N2H4 → 3 N2 + 8 H2

These reactions are extremely exothermic (the catalyst chamber can reach 800 °C in a matter of milliseconds[8]), and they produce large volumes of hot gas from a small volume of liquid hydrazine,[9] making it an efficient thruster propellant.

[edit] Safety

Hydrazine is highly toxic and dangerously unstable, especially in the anhydrous form. Symptoms of acute (short-term) exposure to high levels of hydrazine may include irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, dizziness, headache, nausea, pulmonary edema, seizures, and coma in humans. Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system in humans. The liquid is corrosive and may produce dermatitis from skin contact in humans and animals. Effects to the lungs, liver, spleen, and thyroid have been reported in animals chronically (long-term) exposed to hydrazine via inhalation. Increased incidences of lung, nasal cavity, and liver tumors have been observed in rodents exposed to hydrazine.

[edit]
Lets keep the stupid to a minimum.
Old Age and Treachery, will overcome youth and skill EVERYTIME

Offline Viking

  • Personal Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2867
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2007, 10:07:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by IronDog
Getting to the point,the 163 is the most incorrectley modeled aircraft in the set.


I seriously doubt that.

Offline Viking

  • Personal Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2867
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2007, 10:44:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajWoody
From wikipedia


Rocket fuel



While your post was interesting it has little to do with the Me163. The Me163’s motor was a binary fuel rocket not mono fuel.



Rocket Fuels
Liquid Fuels used in the 109-509 Series Motors.  

T-Stoff - The Oxidant 1
The basis for almost all Walter rocket motors is hydrogen peroxide. With the chemical formula of (H2O2) it is an oxygen rich liquid which, upon decomposition, gives out heat at a rate equivalent to gunpowder.

T-Stoff is volatile and will naturally decompose, but the Walter Werke carried out a large amount of work to establish the correct dilutions and proportions to make the substance powerful enough for a motor, stable enough to store and capable of being controlled during decomposition.

 
T-Stoff was generally an 80% concentrated form, diluted with water, 20% by weight. When brought into contact with a catalyst, the peroxide decomposes into a mixture of superheated steam and oxygen, at around 500o centigrade. Fed directly to an expansion venturi, thrust will result. This basic process was used as the principle of Walter's so-called "Cold" Motors.

 
C-Stoff - The Fuel 1
To increase the efficiency of the motor, a fuel was injected into the mixture, utilising the oxygen released during decomposition to promote combustion.

The liquid fuel used was methyl alcohol, mixed with an organic compound called hydrazine hydrate. This latter was used to ensure the smooth, continuous combustion of the fuel.

The theoretical heat of this reaction would raise the temperature at the combustion chamber to over 1850o, so the actual C-Stoff fuel used, was a dilution with water. This kept the combustion chamber to a manageable 1750o. The difference in temperatures between this and the plain decomposition engine led to the fuelled motor being referred to as the "Hot" motor.


T-Stoff - In Detail 2
Hydrogen Peroxide  H2O2  80% by Weight  
Water  H2O  20% by Weight  
Stabilisers   Phosphoric Acid
Sodium Phosphate
8-Oxyquinoline  

The 20% dilution factor was tested by experiment. Walter research indicated that at concentrations greater than 85%, the peroxide would detonate rather than decompose in a controlled fashion.

The additives to the T-Stoff were to stabilise it, preventing it from decomposing during storage.

Walter Werke had also done a lot of research into suitable materials for engine components, as a number of metals caused the decomposition of the T-Stoff. To be avoided were copper and lead and any organic materials. At least one explosion at the Japanese factory attempting to develop their own copy of the Walter engine was due to using an organic-based gasket within a pump.

All organic and combustible materials had to be avoided because contact with the 85% peroxide would cause spontaneous combustion. Therefore, during any operations involving the movement or dispensing of T-Stoff, hoses of running water were always on hand to wash away and dilute any accidental spillage.

Materials that could be used, were austenitic steels,aluminium and polyvinylchloride (PVC) products.
 

 
C-Stoff - In Detail 2
Methyl Alcohol  CH3OH  57% by Weight  
Hydrazine Hydrate  N2H4.H2O  30% by Weight  
Water  H2O  13% by Weight  
Catalyst 431
Potassium Cuprous Cyanide  K3Cu(CN)4  

The fuel mixture was again discovered through careful experiment. The methyl alcohol (which was referred to as M-Stoff), was mixed with hydrazine hydrate (B-Stoff) which promoted an auto-ignition reaction in the combustion chamber and smooth combustion during operation.

An ideal ratio would have been to use 50% B-Stoff, but the experiments showed that a 30% ratio mixture is just as effective and a cheaper option.

To make the useable fuel, the chemical components were diluted with water.

To decompose the T-Stoff on demand required the presence of a chemical catalyst which promoted the reaction. A number of chemical salts carried this property, including manganese salts. However, in the final Walter motors, potassium cuprous cyanide was used, called Catalyst 431. This copper salt was preferred as it did not produce any deposits in the motor during combustion.

The catalyst itself was mixed in bulk with the C-Stoff fuel in the storage tanks. The fuel was then blown through with air to mix the catalyst and distribute it evenly in the liquid.

During operation, the correct proportions of C-Stoff and T-Stoff were sprayed into the combustion chamber. The presence of the catalyst decomposed the peroxide and the resultant heat of reaction with the presence of the hydrazine hydrate caused the auto-ignition of the methyl alcohol fuel.

The correct ratio of chemical fuels was C-Stoff:T-Stoff, 0.36:1. However, in order to more closely guarantee combustion, a slight excess of T-Stoff at the combustion chamber was preferred, so the actual ratios were closer to 0.29-0.32:1.

 
The Reactions 2
The peroxide, sprayed into intimate contact with the fuel in the combustion chamber undergoes the following chemical reactions.

With the Hydrazine Hydrate, the Peroxide is decomposed into nitrogen and very high temperature steam.

The methanol reacts with the peroxide to produce carbon dioxide and again water, although as we know, the temperature of reaction raises the state of this product to super-heated steam.

As a result, with complete combustion, the exhaust gases are comparatively safe and inert, although the temperature of the jet efflux will be in excess of 1800o centigrade.

In the earlier Walter motors for the Messerschmitt Me 163A Series, the "cold" reaction was initiated by a permanganate catalyst which stained the motor efflux purple.
 
Here, the catalyst was more neutral, and the motor exhaust was much paler, with a yellow/green almost transparent colour until the steam condensed into a dense vapour trail in the air. The power of the reaction, the velocity of exhaust gases and the narrowness of the venturi opening of the motor often led to "diamond" shock waves appearing in the high speed exhaust as Messerschmitt Komet aircraft began their "sharp starts" at take-off. The noise is described in a number of accounts in very colourful language, but must have been ear-splitting.

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2007, 11:22:43 AM »
From Wings of the Luftwaffe by Eric Brown, pp.169-171:

During the interim 14 months, some practical information on the somewhat remarkable characteristics of the HWK 509A rocket motor had been provided the RAE boffins by visits to the engine test stands at the Hellmuth Walter Werke in Kiel, and the outcome was the decision to abandon powered flying for our tests.  I was not consulted in this decision, but I was present at a demonstration in Kiel, and was suitably impressed when, after the shattering roar of a test run, Dr. Walter took two glass rods, placed a droplet of T-Stoff on one and an equally minute quantity of C-Stoff on the other.  He then inclined the rods until the droplet of T-Stoff fell to the floor, the C-Stoff following it.  There was immediately a violent explosion, despite the tiny quantities of fuel and catalyst involved, both rods being shattered in Dr. Walter's hands.  I might not have agreed with the boffins' decision not to risk powered trials in the air, but at least now I understood!

Certainly the Komet had a black accident record, for the slightest irregularity in the set ratio of C-Stoff and T-Stoff being fed into the motor, such as might result from a momentary interruption in the flow of one or the other, could produce an explosion leaving little of the aeroplane or its unfortunate occupant.  Even a bad bump on landing could produce equally disastrous results from the dregs of the tempermental rocket fuels remaining in the tanks.




Anecdotal I suppose.  I believe there is also something in Adolf Galland's The First and the Last (can't find the book right now) about the caustic nature of the fuel and its hazzard to the pilots.



wrngway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline MajWoody

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2152
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2007, 11:23:58 AM »
read the whole post.
It tells of the fuel used in the me163.

also the nature of hydrazine
Lets keep the stupid to a minimum.
Old Age and Treachery, will overcome youth and skill EVERYTIME

Offline Laurie

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2007, 12:06:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Say whatever you like, Herr Viking.  The fact is that the Komet's fuel was quite deadly, and you omitted that fact and called the crate "perfectly safe."  If my pointing that out is cow poo, then so be it.


it's so safe they kept the 2 fuels at either end of the airfield lol!:lol

Offline Viking

  • Personal Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2867
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2007, 12:29:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajWoody
read the whole post.
It tells of the fuel used in the me163.

also the nature of hydrazine


No I'm afraid it does not. The use of Hydrazine Hydrate N2H4.H2O as a component of the 163's fuel is quite different from the pure Hydrazine N2H4 used in mono-propellant rockets today. Hydrazine Hydrate is much less dangerous and was a minor component of the 163's fuel. Also while interesting the rest of your post has nothing to do with the operation of the Walter rocket motor which works completely different from a mono-propellant Hydrazine motor.

Offline jpeg

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 441
      • http://www.steveo.us
Re: hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2007, 09:27:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TwinBoom
title says it all 163 in game is able to turn eng off then restart
how is a rocket able to do this
163 flew up till they ran outa fuel provided they didnt explode
on the runway

hitech comments on this am i wrong just curious?


You know what is "too" (yes there is a difference in the words to and too) gamey?

The ability to have another life after you die in the game.

Could HTC fix it so when players die in the game they die in real life too?

Offline skycaptn

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 126
hitech 163 to gamey pls fix
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2007, 09:08:54 AM »
No JPEG but, ill come to your house and kick you in your junk everytime you die... cheap too.. for that added touch of realism :)