Author Topic: Daytona ... wow  (Read 1443 times)

Offline whiteman

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Daytona ... wow
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2007, 09:43:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
you do know those are not real chevy's and ford's.


you think?????????? so are you saying the same applies to NHRA!!!!!!!
:eek:

Offline blkmgc

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« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2007, 10:21:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
According to the poll on NASCAR.com they should have thrown the flag.

Yes - 54%

No - 46%


NASCAR.com? LOL , your joking right?

Heres what one of thier own staff writers has to say about it

from Duane Cross:
Quote
In the end, caution was thrown to the wind and Kevin Harvick out-muscled Mark Martin to the stripe to win the Great American Race.

NASCAR -- on its biggest stage -- swallowed the flag and did two things:

• Further solidified its standing with those fans who believe the sport plays to its favorites (or more to the point gigs the drivers it doesn't like, as some perceive).

• Made a mark in the sand that caution -- especially under the green, white, checkers scenario -- will not be a factor if the unfolding melee has nothing to do with the race leaders.


Has this guy been living under a rock, or possibly mowing the lawn for the last...oh...hundreds of races? Does he write his articles after reading the intardnet?

NASCAR does not throw a yellow on the last lap when the leaders are coming to the line, and the wrecks behind them.

Hasnt happened in as far back as I remember. If someone has an example, please post it. Irreguardless, the wreck (even if it didnt happen) had absolutely nothing to do with the finish. Martin didnt get it done...again...period. All the sentimentals out there need to accept that  fact and move on. I'm not really a fan of either, but logic has to dictate  sometimes.
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2007, 10:21:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cougar68
Since the whole no racing back to the line thing came about NASCAR has been pretty consistent about when they throw the yellows.  If you go back and watch some of the races for the last two years you'll notice that they always try to let the finish play out if the wreck happens coming out of the final turn.  Whether you agree that it's safe or not, they've done it consistently since it's inception.  They're quick to throw the flag in the middle of a race, but they always try and let it play out at the end.


How can you say that when 6 races finished under caution last year when a wreck occured on the final lap of a green-white-checker finish? Clearly, NASCAR did not allow racing to the line in those races.

The only thing consistent about NASCAR is the fact that they will be inconsistent in rules application.

How's this for consistency? Gordon starts 42nd because of a mechanical problem that caused his car to be too low in post-race inspection. Yet, four teams caught cheating (especially Waltrip) started where they qualified? Don't you think that that blatant cheating should mandate a trip to the back of the pack (maybe disqualified altogether)? It should be a gimmie....

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline blkmgc

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« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2007, 10:23:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
How can you say that when 6 races finished under caution last year when a wreck occured on the final lap of a green-white-checker finish? Clearly, NASCAR did not allow racing to the line in those races.



Please post the races, and where the leaders were when the caution came out.
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Offline blkmgc

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« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2007, 10:24:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing


How's this for consistency? Gordon starts 42nd because of a mechanical problem that caused his car to be too low in post-race inspection. Yet, four teams caught cheating (especially Waltrip) started where they qualified? Don't you think that that blatant cheating should mandate a trip to the back of the pack (maybe disqualified altogether)? It should be a gimmie....

 


I'll agree with that part. But Gordon should have gotten the monitary and points fines as well.
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2007, 10:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whiteman
Sometimes the right thing to do isn't in the book or rules, they did the right thing.


If Bowyer's car had been t-boned while upside down and he was seriously injured, would you still call not throwing a yellow the right thing to do?

Personally, I think red flagging a race and then running the green-white-checker sprint is wildly dangerous anyway. No other major sanctioning body (FIA, SCCA, CART, IRL or USAC) does this.

But, let's face facts. NASCAR is all about the money, and the show is paramount to earning large audience share, and thus maximizing dollar income. Driver safety has always been secondary.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2007, 11:14:56 PM »
Widewing,

Isn't all professional racing about the money? Are there really any non sponsored professional racers out there running their own vehicle out of their own household garage? How about F1?

I'm not trying to jump down your throat, nut I just think lamenting money issues in professional racing to be a bit over the top. It's all about the money at that level.
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2007, 11:15:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blkmgc
Please post the races, and where the leaders were when the caution came out.


Daytona in July, the Brickyard 400 and the August race at Talladega all ended under caution due to a last lap wreck. All wrecks were behind the leaders.

Rusty Wallace stated that there were 6 races that ended under caution, I can find 3, possibly 4, but several of NASCAR's result pages are down. Thus, I cannot confirm more than three.

However, when reviewing last year's results, I was amazed at how many green-white-checker finishes NASCAR engineered and at how many minor wrecks did not generate a caution in a late laps (less than 5 laps). I was also surprised at the number of mysterious "debris" cautions....

Are you guys sure that Brian France isn't an alias for Vince McMann?

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 11:42:54 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2007, 11:25:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Widewing,

Isn't all professional racing about the money? Are there really any non sponsored professional racers out there running their own vehicle out of their own household garage? How about F1?

I'm not trying to jump down your throat, nut I just think lamenting money issues in professional racing to be a bit over the top. It's all about the money at that level.


How about Formula 1? If the drivers believe that circumstances create an unsafe environment, what happens? Remember the 2005 USGP? Every Michelin shod team sat out the race.

As far as many drivers are concerned, living to enjoy your money supercedes the money itself. Most professional drivers, in the absence of high purses, would race anyway. That's what they do... Race. They live for it. Money only makes it that much sweeter.

Look at club level racing. It's almost all amateurs racing for fun, and most pay their own way. If professional racing went away tomorrow, virtually all of the pros would continue to race, because they love it.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2007, 11:29:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blkmgc
NASCAR.com? LOL , your joking right?

Heres what one of thier own staff writers has to say about it

from Duane Cross:


Has this guy been living under a rock, or possibly mowing the lawn for the last...oh...hundreds of races? Does he write his articles after reading the intardnet?

NASCAR does not throw a yellow on the last lap when the leaders are coming to the line, and the wrecks behind them.

Hasnt happened in as far back as I remember. If someone has an example, please post it. Irreguardless, the wreck (even if it didnt happen) had absolutely nothing to do with the finish. Martin didnt get it done...again...period. All the sentimentals out there need to accept that  fact and move on. I'm not really a fan of either, but logic has to dictate  sometimes.
Lighten up Francis. Go back and look at my original post. I said Harvick beat him to the line. I also just reported what the poll said. You can bold text everything you want, it won't make NASCAR consistant.
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Offline whiteman

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« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2007, 04:51:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
If Bowyer's car had been t-boned while upside down and he was seriously injured, would you still call not throwing a yellow the right thing to do?

Personally, I think red flagging a race and then running the green-white-checker sprint is wildly dangerous anyway. No other major sanctioning body (FIA, SCCA, CART, IRL or USAC) does this.

But, let's face facts. NASCAR is all about the money, and the show is paramount to earning large audience share, and thus maximizing dollar income. Driver safety has always been secondary.

My regards,

Widewing


Go back and look at the tape or a replay, they threw the yellow soon as Harvick and Martin crossed. Bowyer was still sliding at that time and hadn't even come to a stop. It's a dangerous sport and they all know what their getting into.

The flag was thrown, it was a delayed flag to let the leaders race.

And find me a series were the teams and body's aren't about the money. Teams and series don't live with out it. Thats how a lot of those guys make a living.

Offline whiteman

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« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2007, 04:57:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
How about Formula 1? If the drivers believe that circumstances create an unsafe environment, what happens? Remember the 2005 USGP? Every Michelin shod team sat out the race.

As far as many drivers are concerned, living to enjoy your money supercedes the money itself. Most professional drivers, in the absence of high purses, would race anyway. That's what they do... Race. They live for it. Money only makes it that much sweeter.

Look at club level racing. It's almost all amateurs racing for fun, and most pay their own way. If professional racing went away tomorrow, virtually all of the pros would continue to race, because they love it.

My regards,

Widewing


No joke they'ed go down to the local track or drag strip, anyone can. But since that won't happen and club level and pro racing aren't any where in the same neighborhood it isn't even worth mentioning.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2007, 06:15:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whiteman
Go back and look at the tape or a replay, they threw the yellow soon as Harvick and Martin crossed. Bowyer was still sliding at that time and hadn't even come to a stop. It's a dangerous sport and they all know what their getting into.

The flag was thrown, it was a delayed flag to let the leaders race.

And find me a series were the teams and body's aren't about the money. Teams and series don't live with out it. Thats how a lot of those guys make a living.


You have managed repeatedly to completely miss the point....

What purpose does a yellow flag serve? It's called a CAUTION flag for a reason. Waiting to display the yellow flag disregards the safety of the drivers. I spent several seasons working as a volunteer corner worker at SCCA and EMRA events. I worked several pro road racing events as well. Yellow flags serve one purpose, to minimize the risk to the drivers by alerting them that there is a problem ahead of them. We had the ability to throw a local yellow, one that governs on the area between flag stations. If the event is serious enough that it requires a tow truck, or the track is blocked, we would ask the steward to display a full-course yellow. That means a waving yellow at all flag stations and at the start-finish line.

The number one goal is to protect the drivers.

NASCAR really isn't interested in protecting the drivers; at least their behavior was diametrically out of phase to their talk on Sunday.

In 2005, at Talladega, on the final lap, with Dale Jarret leading and Stewart gaining fast coming out of the last corner, there was a wreck mid pack. NASCAR threw a yellow, freezing the field. Stewart passed Jarret a second later and beat him to the line. However, since the field was frozen at the time of the yellow, Jarret was awarded the win. When asked why they didn't let them race to the finish, since the wreck was well behind the leaders, NASCAR replied: "It was too dangerous for the other drivers to allow racing to the line with cars spinning down the racetrack."

Fast-forward to February of 2007, and NASCAR does the exact opposite.

This is the type of inconsistency that crushes NASCAR's already shakey credibility.

NASCAR is talking out of both sides of their collective mouths since Sunday. Moreover, with the TV audience having significantly dropped from last year's race, maybe they should consider that manipulating race results is bad policy.

The Press is justifiably leaning all over NASCAR. A writer for the Associated Press wrote the following today:

"It’s why Johnny Benson wasn’t flagged for driving below the yellow line in Friday night’s Truck Series race, even though NASCAR has made that part of the track a strict no-no. But NASCAR deemed Benson’s move legal.

It’s why in a week that saw six people thrown out of the garage for cheating, Jeff Gordon received only a slap on the wrist when his car failed an inspection.

It’s why Elliott Sadler and Scott Riggs were penalized for infractions that car owner Ray Evernham insisted are not even addressed in the rule book.

And it’s why Michael Waltrip wasn’t kicked out of the Daytona 500 after NASCAR found a fuel additive in his new Toyota Camry. The transgression was so blatant Pemberton said he was personally insulted. NASCAR cracked down on Waltrip with stiff penalties, but his presence in the race infuriated rival drivers.

The one constant of Speedweeks? Every incident proved it’s past time for NASCAR to have a very clear rule book. Otherwise, everything will always be arbitrary — even fantastic finishes like Sundays."

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2007, 06:27:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whiteman
No joke they'ed go down to the local track or drag strip, anyone can. But since that won't happen and club level and pro racing aren't any where in the same neighborhood it isn't even worth mentioning.


Ever do any club racing? I have. I campaigned an Alfa Romeo in EMRA and SCCA road racing in the early 1970s. Later, I dabbled with Formula B (a March 722 chassis) working to get my National ticket.

Some of the best, most intense racing can be found at the club level. Some of the most boring and uninteresting racing can be found at the top pro level (Formula 1 being the poster child for huge budget, yet boring competition).

Ever hear of Jerry Hansen? This guy has won 27 national titles. Mario Andretti called Hansen "the most talented road racer ever produced by America." Andretti knows, because he lost to Hansen several times. Hansen is one of those club racers "not worth mentioning".

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2007, 06:37:20 PM »
Widewing
:aok

thats exactly what i wanted to say.