Global Warming SOLAR-made not MAN-made

[AKIron]

Originally posted by lazs2
yep... much as I like to think that someone will be driving my 69 el camino or 55 Healey 1,000 years from now...  even 100 years from now... it isn't gonna happen...

As we run out of oil something else will come up.   No big deal...  nothing to worry about.

lazs

Getcha one of these and who knows.

[McFarland]

Originally posted by Jackal1
There was thunder, thunder, thunder on thunder road.
Thunder was his engine and white light`n was his load.
And there was moonshine, moonshine to quench the devil`s thirst.
The law, they swore they`d get him, but the devil got him first.

Didn't realize someone else on this board was enlightened to Thunder Road. In fact, that happened right around here. Engines will run on shine, and very well. As for the changes, I don't know exactly what my papaw did, I'd have to ask him. I know it outran every car around here. And I also know the old moonshiners ran their cars on their own shine. It was how they got it through the road blocks. It was the one place the police wouldn't think to check. And the cars ran fine on it. As for you say sugar doesn't grow well in the US, well maybe so. It doesn't have to. Corn grows well, as do many grains, and many other things will ferment to make alcohol. And the slop that's left over after the distilation can be fed to animals, hogs especially like it. There isn't much waste. It's a very efficient process.

[Angus]

Careful there. Jacka1 has claimed that rainforests add carbon to the atmosphere because they're rotting.

[Rotax447]

Charon, as always, brought up excellent points.  We do have decades to make a transition, so I see no (outside of political) reasons to press the panic button now.

Corn and wheat prices are at a ten year high.  The world has about a 60 day supply of carryover grain stocks, the lowest supply in 30 years.  Egypt, Mexico, and Japan, all large importers of US corn, are very concerned.  If we decrease corn exports, Mexico and the Sub-Sahara, where corn is a staple food, would be the hardest hit.

Since we are not making more oil, (at least not anywhere near the rate we are consuming it), bio-fuel is a necessary supplement.  But the people who believe that we can simply grow 140 billion gallons of gasoline per year are deluding themselves.

Lazs is right when he said that something else will come up.  That something is hydrogen.  It has nothing to do with delusions, mysticism, or wishful thinking.  It is a matter of physics and engineering.  It is the most abundant element in the universe.  It can be extracted from water and produces oxygen as a by-product.  When recombined with oxygen, it produce energy and water as a by-product.

[Rotax447]

Here you go;

http://automobiles.honda.com/future-cars/fcx-concept.aspx

The future is closer than many think...

[Angus]

Big blocks like the EU have been paying substities to keep land out of use. I belive that the highest numbers there were 10% of fields in the EU.
There is lots of land available in the western world to produce biofuel.

As for the Hydrogen, it needs energy to be seperated. However, if that is fuel burn, the efficency of burning any form of fuel, turning it into electric, seperating H and then gasing up with it, is well inside the ballpark. The benefit is that pollution will be restricted to the power plant, which can use comples systems to clean up, - something vastly superior to what you can fit in any car. That means cities without smog.

BTW, in the city of Reykjavík they have some buses already running on Hydrogen.

[Rotax447]

Originally posted by Angus

As for the Hydrogen, it needs energy to be seperated. However, if that is fuel burn, the efficency of burning any form of fuel, turning it into electric, seperating H and then gasing up with it, is well inside the ballpark. The benefit is that pollution will be restricted to the power plant, which can use comples systems to clean up, - something vastly superior to what you can fit in any car. That means cities without smog.

Very true Angus.  And if the power plants are nuclear (perhaps fusion), solar, wind, geothermal, or hydro, then  particle pollutants and greenhouse gas emissions are nil.  This is our future.

BTW, in the city of Reykjavík they have some buses already running on Hydrogen.

I used to believe the Swedes were enlightened...not any more.   WTG Iceland.

[Rotax447]

Call me a left-wing wuss, but with 800,000,000 souls on this planet severely malnourished, and  6,000,000 children dying every year from starvation, I don't get a real warm, fuzzy, feeling, over the “Food For Fuel” program.

Perhaps Sweden will donate a Saab to each of these children.  At least they will 'starve in style'...

[lazs2]

mcfarland... your "paw paw" fixed your car for you and you don't even know what kind it was or what kind of motor or what he did to it?   Mr... "self sufficent" can't even make a car run without his daddy?

Did daddy drive it for you too?   If you broke down did you just push it off the road and call daddy on your cell?

Moonshiners did not run on their own shine.   There were some who tried up to 10% alcohol but the thing with running shine was that you didn't want a 40 gallon gas tank to run alcohol through the jets...  you didn't want the weight and you didn't want a car that you couldn't fill up with gas anywhere.

I went to arkansas every year as a kid and got to talk to the old moonshiners there... they knew I was interested in "old fast cars" and loved to pull the tarp off or some old moonshiners rig or another.   supercharged 57 Fords...  40 chevies with 320 inch GMC 6's in em.... bunches of early fords and plymouths with olds motors and cad v8's in em.  they ran on gasoline.

You don't add alcohol to your tank and get more hp.. you get less..even if you jet it rich enough to run.   You need to do a lot of things to make the car get more hp out of the less energy but higher octane alcohol.  

sheesh... this backwoodsy folk wisdom is all fun to listen to and all until you start to get specific... then it becomes apparent that you not only talk like an idiot but that you are one.

maybe you should just shut up tho and let me talk to your daddy since he is the one who knows what is under your hood.

lazs

[lazs2]

angus.... retro...whoever..

I got no problem with ethanol... 10% is best for me but any amount will make me faster.

I got no problem with solar... I hope it gets better fast.. I want to run my house on a couple of panels..

I got no problem with hydrogen...

I got no problem with nuke plants... I wouldn't mind everything that took energy to make being cheaper.

What I got a problem with is the same buffoons who gave us public school and social security asking for money to run any program.

What I got a problem with is phony science used to create a doomsday scenario so that I have to give money and power to scumbags like algore.

lazs

[lazs2]

mcfarland.. there is no end to your folksy wisdom is there?

Jesse james was a cold blooded killer and theif.  He shot men women and children and he rode with the bloodiest raiders of the civil war.  He had no problem with burning people alive or shooting women down in the street during the war.   You need to listen less to your daddy and read some history.

By the time the pinkertons had blown up his moms home...  jesse had already become a cold blooded killer and theif...

As for co2...  it follows the temp change... if the temp goes up.. it goes up.. if the temp goes down.. it goes down.

If the suns activity goes down... there is no amount of co2 that will stop the temp of the planet from going down.  Not any that is possible for us to breath that is.

They don't even talk about man made global warming any more..  it is now "global climate change"   the truth is.. the temp is leveling off and going down because the suns activity is going down.

I can't wait to hear how that is our fault and what we have to do to avert the coming ice age.   how only the scientists and algore can save us from frezzing to death.

lazs

[Charon]

Big blocks like the EU have been paying substities to keep land out of use. I belive that the highest numbers there were 10% of fields in the EU.
There is lots of land available in the western world to produce biofuel.

But, there is not enough land to produce biofuels using current feed stocks to replace our dependence on petroleum. Not even close. The EU will be happy with a 5 percent replacement by 2010. And as the focus and incentives have shifted to biofuel crops, demand driven commodity price increase have followed and in a free market farmers will choose to produce fuel feed stocks over food feed stocks. Still won't come anywhere close to meeting fuel demands, but will have an impact on food and fuel prices both directly and through the subsidy (tax) supports.

Take the top current biodiesel feedstock -- Chinese tallow. About 700 gallons per acre, but no alternative food uses for the crop and limited climate choices (eliminating much of the US and Northern Europe as with Palm, the second highest yielder). Strictly a food to fuel conversion per acre. Soy, which is dual use and more flexible in climate produces about 48 gallons per acre. If algae comes through, you are talking about 5000 gallons per acre and the ability to develop algae farms in otherwise nonagricultural areas. That gets exciting. But the cold flow "gelling" properties of biodiesel still limits concentrations to about 5 percent mixed with petroleum diesel in colder climates during the winter months. In Chicago, for example, you might only have 4-5 months where you could operate with a B-20 blend or higher.

Charon

[lazs2]

talking to maintenance cheifs in other cities like beserkly.... they claim that biodiesel in more than 20% is killing some very expensive engines.. like in garbage trucks and buses... they feel that the poor flowing characteristics combined with a lack of lubricity is doing it..  

Guy said he could stick his head in the holes in the block when the almost new motors blew.   He said they looked like they had been running without oil.   This was with the 80% stuff and lowering the amount has pretty much solved the problem.

lazs

[McFarland]

Ay, I've known about the government paying people not to farm. I know a guy that the government offered to pay him not to farm and grow food. He promptly told the government where they could stick their money. Same as any of us would have done. As for what model, it was a 1948 Chevy. I am self sufficient. I can work on gas powered cars, I just don't have the knowledge to completely rework an engine yet. And no, it is not my dad, it is my papaw. My Dad can't fix an engine in worse disrepair than a bad spark plug. Maybe you should learn how to talk right before you begin trying to talk me down. Calling us idiots and saying "it's the sun stupid" just makes you look even more the fool. There is nothing wrong with public school, there is nothing wrong with any of us. It isn't phony science. It isn't a doomsday scenario. So get those backwards notions out of your head first off. It will also take more than two normal sized solar panels to power a house.

@ Charon: Yes, biodiesel does gel at low temperatures, but shine does not. It is very rarely cold enough to freeze shine, and at those temps gas and oil would freeze. Shine was often added to radiators as a cheap antifreeze. It worked very well. You can grow food and fuel on the same land. The mash used to make whiskey can be fed to hogs after it is distilled. As can many other by products of fermentation and distillation.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by McFarland
Didn't realize someone else on this board was enlightened to Thunder Road. In fact, that happened right around here. Engines will run on shine, and very well. As for the changes, I don't know exactly what my papaw did, I'd have to ask him. I know it outran every car around here. And I also know the old moonshiners ran their cars on their own shine. It was how they got it through the road blocks. It was the one place the police wouldn't think to check. And the cars ran fine on it. As for you say sugar doesn't grow well in the US, well maybe so. It doesn't have to. Corn grows well, as do many grains, and many other things will ferment to make alcohol. And the slop that's left over after the distilation can be fed to animals, hogs especially like it. There isn't much waste. It's a very efficient process.

What I don't understand is why Boss Hogg didn't have Sheriff Coltrain utilize STATEWIDE law enforcement resources to help lock down you and Luke. I mean, clearly you were using the county limits to facilitate your illegal activities, so this should have been a no brainer.

-Sik