Author Topic: Global Warming SOLAR-made not MAN-made  (Read 18352 times)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #720 on: September 27, 2007, 04:26:07 AM »


Linkie:

http://www.earth-policy.org/Indicators/Temp/2004.htm

The last years....
"These record-breaking readings, which come from the global series maintained by NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, continue a trend of rising global temperatures. The average temperature of 14.01 degrees Celsius in the 1970s rose to 14.26 degrees in the 1980s. In the 1990s it reached 14.40 degrees. And during the first five years of this new decade, it has averaged 14.59 degrees Celsius. (See Figure 2.)

In fact, the five hottest years on record have all occurred within the last seven years. Of these five, 1998 was the warmest year on record, with an average global temperature of 14.71 degrees Celsius. "
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #721 on: September 27, 2007, 04:38:27 AM »
More of the "cold" last years:
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/recordtemp2005.html

2005 tied 1998 as the hottest year, - 1998 was the year of the El Nino:
"The year 2005 exceeded previous global annual average temperatures despite having weak El Niño conditions at the beginning of the year and normal conditions for the rest of the year.  (El Niño is a period of warmer-than-average sea surface temperatures in the east-central Pacific Ocean that influences weather conditions across much of the globe.) In contrast, the record-breaking temperatures of 1998 were boosted by a particularly strong El Niño. "

Then the Oceans:
"Oceans comprise 97 percent of Earth's water.  They have an average depth of approximately 13,000 feet (4 kilometers). It takes a great deal of heat to raise the temperature of this huge body of water, and the oceans have absorbed the bulk of Earth's excess heat over the past several decades. (See figure, "Estimates of Earth's Heat Balance.") From 1955 to 1998, the upper ~9,800 feet (3,000 meters) of the ocean have warmed by an average 0.067 degrees Fahrenheit (0.037 degrees Celsius)"

So, they are warming. Remember how massive they are compared to the atmosphere. One thing for realization:
" For a hypothetical example, if the average temperature of the world's oceans increased by 0.18 degree Fahrenheit (0.1 degree Celsius) and this heat was transferred instantly to the atmosphere, the air temperature would increase by about 180 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Celsius). "

As for those "normal" swings and Glacial areas....

The extent and duration of frozen ground have declined in most locations. Snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere has declined about five percent over the past 30 years, particularly in late winter and spring, and the freezing altitude has risen in every major mountain chain. Alpine and polar glaciers have retreated since 1961, and the amount of ice melting in Greenland has increased since 1979. Over the past 25 years, the average annual Arctic sea ice area has decreased by almost five percent and summer sea ice area has decreased by almost 15 percent. The collapse of the Larsen Ice Shelf off the Antarctic Peninsula appears to have no precedent in the last 11,000 years.


This one even needs an update, for the record melting year happens to be NOW.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #722 on: September 27, 2007, 04:46:54 AM »
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I`m Schizophrenic
and so am I
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #723 on: September 27, 2007, 04:55:47 AM »
Now did Kurt Vonnegut put this:
Roses are read
And ready for plucking
You're sweet sixteen
And ready for....highschool

:D
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #724 on: September 27, 2007, 06:31:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
angus... Oh wait... we are now saying that local climate is the same as global temp?    You gotta keep me straight on the rules if you are going to change em all the time.

The best I can tell.... within the limits of margin of error... the average global temp has not risen in the last 7 years and has even dipped a little.

2 billion dollars a year is handed out for "computer models" of the man made global warming hoax... this is only the tip of the grant iceberg.

and... as was pointed out... more and more of the published peer reviewed scientific papers are getting sensible and fewer and fewer are saying that man is causing global warming with only 6% saying we are causing it enough to be a catastrophe.    

basicly... if we are helping it.. we aren't doing enough to matter... one way or the other.

lazs


As par for the course laz, you rehash BS thoughts that have already been soundly defeated.  I believe someone about 100 pages back took the time to check out your "only 6% 'of papers say we are causing global warming enough to be a catastrophe,  (pure BS) and showed a statistical breakdown on the volume of work which was available on subject.  Obviously, they wasted their time replying to your lunacy.

I also want to see some substantive backup for your 2 billion dollars a year is given out for computer simulations on global warming.

But, alas, you won't reply with anything even masquerading as a viable source.

And, Laz, honestly, someday you really need to learn how science ACTUALLY WORKS.   Tip of the grant iceberg... that's incredibly laughable.
"Ocean: A body of water occupying 2/3 of a world made for man...who has no gills."
-Ambrose Bierce

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #725 on: September 27, 2007, 08:24:52 AM »
angus.. the article you show is outdated.. in "man made global warming alarmist" circles... a year is outdated considering all the exaggeration...

For instance.. the hottest years were in the 30's.... hotter than 98.   98 itself was caused by el nino... nothing to do with some sort of co2 peak.

Even the chart you show shows a leveling... a drop even.. in temp.   You need to get over the fact that ice is melting in your area..   we are talking global here.   the ice is thicker in the south.  it all works out.  

Moray... are you unable to read?  there is links to the article.. both I and the global warming acolyte linked to it.   Only 6% of the peer reviewed articles said that man was doing enough to cause a catastrophe.   another large body thought that we were "contributing" but many more felt that we could not have any effect that would be noticeable.

The trend is real... more and more scientists are speaking out about how exaggerated and weak the whole man made global warming theory is.  A google search a couple of years ago found almost total agreement that the world was gonna burn to a cinder by mans own hand and.... real soon.

Now... it is easy to find articles that explain in simple (and often not so simple) terms just why the math doesn't add up.

lazs

Offline Angus

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« Reply #726 on: September 27, 2007, 10:52:51 AM »
The Ice is not thicker in the south since SL is rising.
Melting of floating Ice does not raise SL....
98 with El Nino has been matched with 2005 without the El-Nino effect. Now last time I checked that was not 7 years ago....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline moot

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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #728 on: September 27, 2007, 03:11:51 PM »
pretty good article...  I was struck by the fact that 86% of the doubling of co2 has already happened for which only a 0.6-0.8 degree warming has happened... and that is if you are silly enough to think that all warming is because of greenhouse gas...even tho... everyone admits at least some other natural causes.

This is so far below predictions.... below the computer models that some excuse had to be given... the alarmists say that it is the "aerosol" effect (human too of course) that is causing the earth to not heat like the models predict... they do admit however that they do not understand the "aerosol" effect.  

A statement that does not get challenged tho... and... this is interesting...

"Records of the hadley centre, for example, show that there has been no warming trend in global average temperature for the last ten years."

It is also fair to note that the models for the last 20 years have been accurate except for they read higher than the actual temps... the models do differ wildly from actual satelite data once you get to about 2001... at that point the defenders of the greenhouse theory convienently leave out the computer predictons which would show that they were way too high... if you took that margin of error and projected it...

Point being..  they keep predicting higher and higher temps for decades and even the next century... they were ok for the first 20 years but.. the warming trend was pretty apparent in any case.... now.. the trend is toward a flattening...even a cooling and the models just keep going up... mother nature isn't co operating sooooo....

It must be aerosols... yeah that's it... even tho they admit they have no idea how that could be.

Hopefully... we can delay long enough so that the models diverge even further from reality so that we don't waste a bunch of resources.

Co2 math doesn't work out and that is all there is too it.   No computer model now can model the earth.   If el nino and solar activity and sea floor spreading and axis tilt and even.... clouds... they don't even model clouds!  if those things aren't (and can't really be) modeled.. then you have no model...

Your model tells you only what could happen if you changed one thing and nothing else interacted with that.

lazs

Offline Angus

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« Reply #729 on: September 27, 2007, 07:00:23 PM »
Well, the Ice math more than works out. That is, while air temp may not have been going up as predicted (?), ocean temp and Ice melting are ahead of predictions, especially the ice.
That is naughty, for as pointed out, the mass of Ice and sea is vastly above the atmosphere mass.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #730 on: September 30, 2007, 06:28:26 AM »
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #731 on: September 30, 2007, 06:38:36 AM »
SSDD......................... .......Part 2.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #732 on: September 30, 2007, 06:52:44 AM »
Oh, Stephen Fry is on ...my side as well :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDIP71Lviys
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline T0J0

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« Reply #733 on: September 30, 2007, 07:24:17 AM »
My neighbors argument is "even if it turns out were wrong about global warming being man made, we are right"
At first I wasn't sure how to answer that arguement, but after having to listen to that answer several times over the last quarter I asked him "do you believe in science?" his answer "of course"
Then this is how it works "Even if your wrong about global warming your wrong according to science"
This from a guy who's carbon footprint must be the size of several grape apes...

Why do you think its called greenland?!

TJ

Offline Angus

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« Reply #734 on: September 30, 2007, 09:07:07 AM »
Well, you don't have to worry about being wrong about "global warming", for it's sort off...quite well scientifically established. Except if you ask Lazs.
Since the promoted countermeasures are basically to reduce absolute squandering of energy and resources, as well as trying to reduce pollution, Fry's point was simply that those measures don't hurt. And what he does not mention is that we can't go on like this very long anyway. So, roll up sleeves and off to the job!
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)