Author Topic: hiroshima recreation (Read 3100 times)

Viking · « **Reply #105 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:31:40 PM »

Lazs, would America have surrendered? It's not a difficult question, and from you recluctance to answer it I conclude that you agree with me. America would never surrender to any enemy without at least an invasion of the US mainland.

Viking · « **Reply #106 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:34:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Maybe the text will hurt your head rather than the eyes.
Anyway, any cod left around Norway ??

()

So I take it you're not going to reformat your post?

Angus · « **Reply #107 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:41:55 PM »

No.
You can cut and paste it into Word though, maybe then you can read it?

Viking · « **Reply #108 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:48:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
gshlotzvikingboy... Of course you are wrong... most of the euro countries hitler invaded folded like a cheap card table under a fat lady.. they gave up when their armies were defeated which, coincidentaly.. happened to be on their own soil... no mass of citizens fighting..

Should Poland have surrendered before Warsaw was reduced to rubble? Should the Dutch have surrendered when the Germans approached their borders?

Britain’s armies were defeated in France and abandoned all their equipment at Dunkirk. London and many other cities burning under the Blitz. Should they have surrendered? Of course not.

Viking · « **Reply #109 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:49:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
No.
You can cut and paste it into Word though, maybe then you can read it?

Not worth the effort. Sorry.

DaYooper · « **Reply #110 on:** March 08, 2007, 07:23:07 PM »

Go read Flyboys.

An atomic bomb drop killed less than a firebombing mission and the samurai sword killed more in WWII than any other weapon.

Besides Pearl Harbor, I think the US High Command knew the Japs were eating captured Americans. Thus the Bomb.

I also knew an old Marine from an assault division (5th) and after he saw Okinowa, he believed the Bomb saved his life along with many other Marines.

Angus · « **Reply #111 on:** March 08, 2007, 09:02:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
Should Poland have surrendered before Warsaw was reduced to rubble? Should the Dutch have surrendered when the Germans approached their borders?

Britain’s armies were defeated in France and abandoned all their equipment at Dunkirk. London and many other cities burning under the Blitz. Should they have surrendered? Of course not.

FYI, Warshaw was reduced to rubble years after Poland surrendered.
(I know you are referring to the firebombing of Warshaw, but anyway

)
And the Dutch affair took very little time.
As for the British, unlike Holland or Poland, they had both their Navy and the RAF, and a natural Barrier. While the Germans could indeed bomb London (at night) for 58 consecutive days, they could not expose their ships on the high seas. The British had more than just the will to fight, - they also had the potential. So, surrender was further away by logic. But they did get a better offer (Hitler's appeal to reason) than surrender. Luckily they didn't take that bait....

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #112 on:** March 09, 2007, 12:47:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
Lazs, would America have surrendered? It's not a difficult question, and from you recluctance to answer it I conclude that you agree with me. America would never surrender to any enemy without at least an invasion of the US mainland.

No, they wouldn't have. A war with america, especially on american soil would be difficult to fight, much less to win. Unless my geography lessons are off, Russia would be nothing like fighting america.

Russia had most of their major cities in the west, well within reach of german power. It was only germany's stupidity that led to their loss at stalingrad.

Anyway, Poland will always have a special place in my heart for their bravery (and their holding out longer then france).

Angus · « **Reply #113 on:** March 09, 2007, 05:56:25 AM »

" It was only germany's stupidity that led to their loss at stalingrad."

Not really. Many factors, including multiple fronts and lack of supplies (related)
IMHO, had the British not kept on fighting, the Germans would have bent the USSR.

lazs2 · « **Reply #114 on:** March 09, 2007, 08:14:18 AM »

gshlotzvikingboy... your question is silly.. we would not have surrendered if the japs or germans made some pitiful little attacks on coastal cities.. they could not have invaded.. the whole german airforce couldn't fly a few miles across some water and have enough fuel or good enough planes to defeat the air force of a tiny little island.

How would they get here? It is not a serious question.. Plus....you can't have it both ways. euro countries surrendered before they were reduced to rubble...

The suicide king countries run by the military... japan and germany and, to a lesser extent, russia.. all were perfectly willing to have every single one of their citizens die.

We would never have been in a position to surrender but... if there would have been a circumstance where we were overwhelmed... We would surrender before our cities were as leveled as those of japan and germany...

Americans did surrender in some circumstances in the war. There were American POW's.

I just don't see your point... japan was on a suicide trip.. as was germany... the end was clear to everyone long before the last major city was incinerated.. any country not insane would have surrendered.. especially when they were only surrendering to a democratic foe.

lazs

straffo · « **Reply #115 on:** March 09, 2007, 08:36:50 AM »

WTF is a "Race: Pure Blood American" ?

Angus · « **Reply #116 on:** March 09, 2007, 09:02:51 AM »

Lazs2:
The word "suicide king" is exactly the core of what I typed for Scholzie. It was a wall of text, but you beat methere with a nice short definition of the politics of late war Japan and Germany.
So, a thumb up for that one bro

Viking · « **Reply #117 on:** March 09, 2007, 09:07:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
gshlotzvikingboy... your question is silly.. we would not have surrendered if the japs or germans made some pitiful little attacks on coastal cities.. they could not have invaded.. the whole german airforce couldn't fly a few miles across some water and have enough fuel or good enough planes to defeat the air force of a tiny little island.

Lassie, I wasn’t talking about Japan or Germany specifically. I was talking about ANY enemy, theoretical or otherwise. Lasersailor gets it, but you’re just being deliberately obtuse. If the Soviets destroyed two US cities during the cold war and threatened to destroy the entire US would you have surrendered? No. The democratically elected American leadership, safe in their nuclear command bunkers, would have sacrificed the entire civilian population in an all out nuclear exchange with the Soviets. Or do you perhaps think America would have surrendered?

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
Plus....you can't have it both ways. euro countries surrendered before they were reduced to rubble...

The suicide king countries run by the military... japan and germany and, to a lesser extent, russia.. all were perfectly willing to have every single one of their citizens die.

And here your argument falls on its own unfairness. Japan DID surrender before being reduced to rubble (more than most European countries anyway). Japan DID surrender before sacrificing its population. You seem to hold Japan to a different standard than other countries.

lazs2 · « **Reply #118 on:** March 09, 2007, 09:14:15 AM »

What are you talking about? we were having trouble finding cities to firebomb in japan... they were all rubble. we were flying unescorted B29's and dropping tons of bombs on them and they could do nothing more than shake sticks at us.

The atom bomb simply showed them that things were gonna get even worse.

But.. what was left to bomb? country homes?

The soviets do not exist anymore. The scenario you give is again.... silly. Why would we surrender and to who? if we were devestated by nuclear attack it seems certain that the old soviet union would be in as bad or worse shape. They wouldn't even be able to get here to accept our surrender.

If we were devestated and the enemy had the capability to continue to bomb us unappossed.... I can not but think our government would surrender. I can think of no situation that would bring about this event tho.

Such thoughts are not something we think about... unlike you, we realize that it is simply too impossible.

lazs

Viking · « **Reply #119 on:** March 09, 2007, 09:25:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Lazs2:
The word "suicide king" is exactly the core of what I typed for Scholzie. It was a wall of text, but you beat methere with a nice short definition of the politics of late war Japan and Germany.
So, a thumb up for that one bro

Something I brought up on page two:

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
I would say the Japanese and German culture glorified death to the point that most of their population welcomed a chance to die for their country. A whole population doesn’t ‘commit suicide’ just because their leaders say so.

"Ich schwöre bei Gott diesen heiligen Eid, daß ich dem Führer des Deutschen Reiches und Volkes, Adolf Hitler, dem Oberbefehlshaber der Wehrmacht, unbedingten Gehorsam leisten und als tapferer Soldat bereit sein will, jederzeit für diesen Eid mein Leben einzusetzen."

Or as Erich Topp called it: “Die fantischen Bereitwilligkeit zu sterben”. The fanatical will to die.