hiroshima recreation

[Xargos]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Xargos is obviously a Euro playing at being a stereotype of a redneck-moron American.

Bleeding hearts like you is the reason America has such a high crime rate.  Why do people like you give so many rights to the criminal but none to the victims?  Is it your goal to make people completely depended on the government for everything?  Do I have your permission to go use the restroom now?

And I have never tried to hide my identity like some people in here.


P.S.  I suppose you would have welcomed a crack-head into your house at 3 in the morning and stood by and watched as he raped your wife.  It's funny how some people have all these rules for other people but when it comes to them those rules do not apply.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Yeager
The Japanese should have surrendered "BEFORE" the atomic attacks.  Could have saved many hundreds of thousands of lives, during the attacks and for all the years after of radiation sickness but anyway, its not like the Japanese started the war or had any role in its destructiveness.....

Somehow I have a hard time imagining that America would have surrendered without at least an invasion of the US mainland. I don’t see why the Japanese should have acted differently. By your logic the US should have surrendered in 1941; would have saved a lot of lives.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Yeager
its "Kid Gloves"  not "Kit Gloves"....using kid gloves means your not really throwing a punch  but more of a tap, not meant to hurt.

just an educational moment for all interested parties.

Press On

I was under the impression that the "kid" in "kid gloves" referred to gloves made from the skin of young goats.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Xargos is obviously a Euro playing at being a stereotype of a redneck-moron American.

Made me laugh Thrawn.

Regards,

hap

[Hap]

Originally posted by Yeager
well....its like a long time Japanese American friend of mine opined after seeing the CG clip.  He said: "people will argue about this forever, until something worse happens".

And it will.

The Japanese should have surrendered "BEFORE" the atomic attacks.  Could have saved many hundreds of thousands of lives, during the attacks and for all the years after of radiation sickness but anyway, its not like the Japanese started the war or had any role in its destructiveness.....

Ding, ding, ding.  Give the man a cookie.

Japanese had what, a 10 month raw material resource window?

Germany by late Fall of '40 had buggered themselves.

The Fog of War and the wickedness of man.

Regards,

hap

[Viking]

Originally posted by Hap
Germany by late Fall of '40 had buggered themselves.

In what way?

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Viking
In what way?

They were all gay.

[Hap]

Viking,

Battle of Britain.  German airforce lost.  RAF won.

The giant German "oops" after Poland and France.

Gross misjudgment of British inentions and resolve to war and not sue for peace or let the status quo of low countries, Poland, and France remain in German hands.

Not all together different from Japan.  Misjudging, misguided, bolluxed billigerents.

THEN the whole thing takes what, another 4 years or so to wind down.

Fog of War.  Wickedness of Man.

It all Stinks,

hap

p.s.  See, to all the Mid-East war mongers out there.  Even in an all out conflict where they wore uniforms and to a much greater degree you could ID the bad guys as opposed to "insurgents," the stinking thing takes 20 million+ and 4 years to end.  What's 20 million in today's #'s as a portion of world population given increased population.  I've no idea.  The # would be even more appalling.

There's no end to the rabble rousing rancor and conflict over there.  I'd like to know what was going on before WW1 over there.  I'm too lazy to search it out.  I guess they where hacking with swords each other and biting the heads of lambs and camels or someting.

Now there is no "best course of action."  Only varying degrees of lousy choices exist for the Western nations especially America.

There's the "kill 'em all -- nuke all of them" crowd in here.  Only a handful say it, but you can read 25 posts and hear it even when the words aren't there.

I never though isolationism would look good.  If we could turn on a dime, which we can't, and get our manufacturing back, which we can't, we'd be in a much better position.

The American stock market wouldn't be above 10,000 and a regular Joe Shmuck with a honest heart and strong back could make a decent living, own a home, car, send kid to college.

We've traded an ideal Post WW2 state: we made what we consumed and employed Americans to make it -- for an undisguised greed.  The last gasp of the patrimony of the greatest generation squandered by the '50's - 60's generation.  The old ducks were right back when I was 10.  We did run it into the ground.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
They were all gay.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Viking
I simply can’t respect such a man. Sorry.

I'm sure not having your respect keeps him awake most nights.

[Angus]

Originally posted by Viking
Somehow I have a hard time imagining that America would have surrendered without at least an invasion of the US mainland. I don’t see why the Japanese should have acted differently. By your logic the US should have surrendered in 1941; would have saved a lot of lives.

You're being silly.
Actually the situation was such that Yamamoto knew it.
Although Pearl Harbour was basically a success, it wasn't. The fuel was intact (command failiure) and the carriers were away.
After Leyte Gulf or at least Okinawa, or Tokyo being firebombed (more casualties than even Hiroshima?), the Japs should have gone to the table. They didn't. Not even after Hiroshima, and only through the emperor interveining after Nagasaki.
So...you have lots of dead for nothing, - there was for a long time no way Japan could win.

Same goes to Germany. When the enemy has the potential of razing all cities to the ground, be it day or night, it's over. Germany should have stepped down and bowed in 1943/44, - that way they might have cut a deal, and that is what many of their fines commanders realized, - thus trying to eliminate Hitler (Rommel, Stauffenberg etc).
But Germany's fanatic leaders blabbered about the final victory untill the army could take a bus between the fronts.

The biggest Darwin award therefor goes to the Nazis and the Japs.

And Hap, - Germany had not lost after the BoB, - they just played their cards wrong. Basically they had "won", and then they stepped into a deep poddle by underestimating the British, declaring war on USA, and jumping at the USSR (which was probably an unevitable conflict anyway).
IMHO, had Germany ripped the deal withJapan in1941, Made a deal with the Brits (might have worked with giving back France for instance), the USSR would not have made it. So close was it....anyway, I'll plonk that one into another thread.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Angus
You're being silly.

Nope. You’re being silly if you think the Americans would have surrendered to the Japanese without an invasion of the US mainland. Even then I can see plenty of Americans offering armed resistance no matter what Washington decides. The Russians had also all but lost in 1941-42 with the Germans shelling Moscow, but they didn’t give up. They fought and won … it cost them 20 million lives, but they won.

Giving up is not in the Japanese and American national character. (Or Russian or German for that matter).

[Torque]

i have no empathy for either the japanese or the german civillian deaths.

the allies had every right to fire bomb germany to dust, and the americans had every right to drop the atomic bomb on japan.

had family die over the skies of britian and the wife had relatives in the camps in germany.

they got what they deserved, if a society is deluded to the point it thinks it has the right to dominate the world, it deserves a hard slap of rational.

[Xargos]

Originally posted by Viking
I simply can’t respect such a man. Sorry.

Don't worry, I know I have HIS respect.

[Angus]

Viking: the silly logic:

"Somehow I have a hard time imagining that America would have surrendered without at least an invasion of the US mainland. I don’t see why the Japanese should have acted differently. By your logic the US should have surrendered in 1941; would have saved a lot of lives."

Of course the USA were nowhere near to surrender, while Japan, later in the war, should have stepped down for their own good. Well before any mainland invasion.
Same goes to Germany.
Clear enough?