French Fighters

[straffo]

wstpt10 my post was about the VG33 not the D520

[Krusty]

edit: just reworded a line or two for clarification.

Milo I've got a book that splits the hawk 75 into a completely different write-up from the P-36. It mentions that the french ordered and received aircraft under the P-36s entry, but that the Hawk 75 was only used by a few countries (Argentina, China, Thailand).

It does say first printed 1982... So it could have a piece or two of bad info. It just makes an effort to distinguish the two types. It does seem to lump "Hawk 75A" in with "P-36," and separates "Hawk 75" (no "A") as a different category.

It does mention, however, that the majority of the Hawk 75As were diverted to UK as France had fallen. Not sure how many actually made it to France before this point.

[MiloMorai]

When France was overrun by Germany in June 1940, 291 assorted Hawk A-1, A-2, and A-3s had been delivered. From those not destroyed in the Battle of France, Germany sold Finland 36 of the Hawk fighters. Finland purchased an additional 8 Hawk A-7s from Germany when Norway was occupied to bring the total of 44. The first five Hawks delivered were serialled CU-501 to CU-505. The following thirty-nine were serialled CU-551 to CU-589. Some of the serials had a small subscript w, such as the aircraft I have modeled, after the CU. This indicated that the aircraft have been either refitted or repaired at the Finnish Aircraft Service Factory VL (Valtion Lentokonetehdas). All Hawk fighters were assigned to three flights of Flying Squadron 32 (Lentolaivue 32) and remained in service until the end on the Continuation War with the USSR. A few survivors remained in Finland's Air Force inventory until 1948. LeLv (Lentolaivue) 32 distinguished themselves very well with the Curtiss fighters and achieved 190 victories with them for the loss of only 15 in combat situations.

[Panzzer]

Oh yes... Curtiss Hawk 75A to AH. But only after we get the Brewster 239.

Finland received a total of 77 M.S. 406's and 10 M.S. 410's - some of which were later converted to use the Klimov engine. Lentolaivue 28 used Moranes and later  on some of the Moranes were delivered to Lentolaivue 14, which was actually a recce squad. The Finns achieved 135 victories (of which 14 in Winter War 1939-40) in Moranes for the loss of 18 planes.

(Facts checked from Pentti Perttula's excellent site).

[Krusty]

cool

[Vespasiano]

Oh yes... perhapas you don't think you should be intimidated in front of a H75... but let me fly a D520, even if you are in a 109 you'll see what this aircraft can do.

It may be difficult to model such planes as D520 or Brewster mentionned many time on this forum, which are not famous as Spitfire or P-51, but we could help giving documents and many information if someone decided to add them in AH.

[Knegel]

Originally posted by Vespasiano
Hello All,

I'm a french student, impassioned by aviation, I am playing to AH since last year, and I would like to know why french Fighters are always forgotten in flight games, AH, Flight Simulator, Il-2...

Hi,

Il-2 include the MS406 and Haw75, otherwise i guess the othe rplanes dont get included cause they played only a very smal role in WWII.
The performence of this planes also was not up to date. Sure they could turn,  but thats what also the Hurri could, which did count as disadvanced.
The designs of the DW520 and MS406 was good, but they did lack a good engine. Similar designs, like the Fiat G50 and Mc200 fitted with a strong engine could show its potential in form of the G-55 and Mc202/5, the french planes dont had this luck, so normaly only the two by the FAF successfully used types find its way into a flightsim.  
 
I only know European Airwar where you can "fly" a DW520,  C714, DW371, MB152,  Po54 and Leo451(the bombers are meant as Ai though, EAW is a fighter sim mainly, though you can fly the bombers).

In AH iam all for a MS406 and Haw75 but we still miss same or more important planes, like the Yak1, Mig-3, Lagg-3, I-16, Do-17, Pe-2, Brewster F2A, Ju87G, He111, Me410, Gloster Gladiator, Ki-43, Ki-44, Blenheim, Beaufighter, SpitVCcw, FW190A9, B25, B29 and last but not least the P39.
For a BoF setup we also would need the Bf109E1 and E3 and the pre BoB Hurris and Spits as well.

Greetings,

Knegel

[Vespasiano]

That's obvious that they didn't have an important role during WWII... but D520 was also used by Vichy's government (bad part of our history I agree) in North Africa against the allied aviation, then some were used by free french forces, even at this time they were not so old.
Ms-406 and H75 are in Il-2, but they were not made to be used as french fighters, we have to change the skins, and there is still not Dewoitine.

Yak-1 should be an intersting plane too, the first one used by the french squadron "Normandie Niemen"



ps : just about what is written in your signature :
"The 1st engined flight was made by Richard Pearse, Waitohi, New Zealand, March 31, 1902, May 11, 1903 1st 1000yard+ flight, Karl Jatho, 18.August 1903, Hannover - Vahrenheide. In November he reached already 60m distances. The Wright 'Flyer 1' made its 1st flight(36m) at 17. December 1903!"

That's wrong, I know he is not really known in other continents, but the first engined flight was made by Clément Ader in 1890, who invented the name "avion", meaning "plane", used in french, in italian, in spanish and some other european languages. This is too the origin of the world "aviation" you are also using yourselves.

[Squire]

There isnt a lot of interest in anything that wasnt a 1945 bird, thats why.  Ask for yet another jet, and watch all the interest especaily if it had 6 x 20mm cannons.

[Vespasiano]

That's what I wanted to say... french aircrafts are generally considerated as having no interest with all Spitfire, Thunderbolt, Mustang... but here I'm sure getting a D520 and creating a french squadron should be really appreciated, WWII didn't begin in 1945.

[Karnak]

D.520 would be a nice early war addition than could, if flown with panache, get kills in any era of AH.

[Grendel]

BTW World War II Online has Curtiss Hawk 75 and Dewoitine 520. Sweet planes.

[Vespasiano]

They also have a H-81, the french P-40, that was in fact never used because sent to late.
http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_images.asp/1677
But World War II Online isn't as intesting as AH.


The most intersting I think is the D520, it had not so many time to prove it was a real great fighter, but in a flight simulation it should be well used.

Perhaps it is difficult for american people to modelize such a plane because of the lack of documentation... is there a group of people realizing new planes or only some players that are able to do it when they want ?

[wstpt10]

Originally posted by Vespasiano
They also have a H-81, the french P-40, that was in fact never used because sent to late.
http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_images.asp/1677
But World War II Online isn't as intesting as AH.


The most intersting I think is the D520, it had not so many time to prove it was a real great fighter, but in a flight simulation it should be well used.

Perhaps it is difficult for american people to modelize such a plane because of the lack of documentation... is there a group of people realizing new planes or only some players that are able to do it when they want ?

The H-81 is in the game right now, as the P-40B.

The air war in WWIIOL definatly isn't as much fun as in AH2, but you should give the ground game a shot. It's a lot more gratifying to watch the turret pop off a Tiger with a 3" high velocity round than it is in this game, IMO.

Cockpit view of the Dewotine in WWIIOL:



The P-38s are 38Fs. The French purchased a number of them as the Lockheed 322-15, but none were delivered in time.

[Vespasiano]

Yes, it's not as interesting to fly planes which were never used, as it was said for the prototype Arsenal VG-33...
H-81 wasn't a great fighter compared to the Dewoitine, much more exciting to fly the D520.

(even if some pilotes used it perfectly, in the American Volunteer Group in China or the 112th "Shark Squadron" in North Africa)