Who is Ron Paul?

[Hap]

Am listening to Ron Paul being interviewed by Dennis Miller on 5/20/07.  You can download and listen by going to Miller's website.  Begins about 45 mins and lasts for 10 mins.

I glanced at this thread and saw the thought expressed since he can't win, why vote for him?

Boy, that suggests that bad men have won the day, eh?

I would think that no one that I know from the tiny bit I know them here on the O'Club would think of themselves as the tools of bad men.

Here's the reason I say a comment like must vote for someone who can win shows why evil men may have won the day.

The criteria has become who can win instead of who is the best man.

Possibly, there's no way to tell who is a better person:  Mr. X, Y, or Z.  
Regardless, it would be very difficult anyway.  Just because something is difficult it does not follow that it should not be attempted.

I'm not saying Paul is.  I'm still digging around.  I very much like his tone and his reasoning and truth telling about our beginning the Iraq war though.

[lazs2]

I didn't say you have to vote for someone who will win..   I said that you have to vote to make sure that a democrat doesn't get in.   Huge difference.

lazs

[crockett]

Originally posted by lazs2
I didn't say you have to vote for someone who will win..   I said that you have to vote to make sure that a democrat doesn't get in.   Huge difference.

lazs

That statement is a sad one and represents everything that is wrong with this country. Maybe one day you will understand, that it's not any specific party that makes a difference, It's the man whom makes the difference.

The party the man represents  is irrelevant and nothing more than a means for propaganda and useless rhetoric. It should always be about the best man for the job. Nothing else matters.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by crockett

It should always be about the best man for the job. Nothing else matters.

It should be, but do you truly believe that it is? The party has a good deal of control over the candidate; the Primaries ensure this. Like it or not I think Lazs has a pretty firm grip on the politcal realities in our two party system.

-Sik

[lazs2]

If you vote for the liberal green guy when the election is close then you are playing into the hands of the republicans...  If you vote for the libertarian when the election is close then you are playing into the hands of the democrats.

That is the reality... you are the tiny group that they like to play like a fiddle every election...  I would venture to say that I have been through a few more elections than you have crockett..   your sound bites not withstanding.

I am doing something when I do my best to keep democrats out.  You are doing nothing...  everyone already knows what percent will vote for the independent.

It is planed for.. the only hope is for a strong independent to wipe out the opossition.

If you let billary or osamabama in to prove a point then it is you who are the problem.

lazs

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by lazs2
If you vote for the liberal green guy when the election is close then you are playing into the hands of the republicans...  If you vote for the libertarian when the election is close then you are playing into the hands of the democrats.

That is the reality... you are the tiny group that they like to play like a fiddle every election...  I would venture to say that I have been through a few more elections than you have crockett..   your sound bites not withstanding.

I am doing something when I do my best to keep democrats out.  You are doing nothing...  everyone already knows what percent will vote for the independent.

It is planed for.. the only hope is for a strong independent to wipe out the opossition.

If you let billary or osamabama in to prove a point then it is you who are the problem.

lazs

good thing RP's running as an R this time...

(this isn't directed at only you Lazs, but at the risk of sounding like a whiney little b*&7% again, can we please stay on topic?)

[crockett]

Originally posted by lazs2
If you vote for the liberal green guy when the election is close then you are playing into the hands of the republicans...  If you vote for the libertarian when the election is close then you are playing into the hands of the democrats.

That is the reality... you are the tiny group that they like to play like a fiddle every election...  I would venture to say that I have been through a few more elections than you have crockett..   your sound bites not withstanding.

I am doing something when I do my best to keep democrats out.  You are doing nothing...  everyone already knows what percent will vote for the independent.

It is planed for.. the only hope is for a strong independent to wipe out the opossition.

If you let billary or osamabama in to prove a point then it is you who are the problem.

lazs

Seriously  are you so naive to think "only" your side is doing anything? So "only you" are doing anything by voting for Republicans.

You are a hypocrite even in this topic. First off you sit there and claim you will vote for "any" Republican just to keep a Democrat out. Then you claim voting for Biliary or Obama would be just "for proving a point".

I have nothing really against any party, I register as a independent because I don't support Republicans or Democrats. I support the guy whom I think will do the best for my county.

Your precious Republican party has gone so far off the trail from it's roots that it's pretty sicking they still call themselves Republicains. Your blind faith for the "name" of a party is what wrong with this county.

Sure no matter what party the man is part of he is going to be tied to their belief's to a point. However a good president can overcome that and do what best for the country in a whole.

Bush has done nothing to bring this country together, neither has  the current crop of Republicans. They do nothing but try to divide this country and alienate it from the world.

It's too bad a guys like Ron Paul or Obama will probably never have a chance in our current political scam of a system. They would both be good for this country. Too bad our country was bought and sold a long time ago, because in this current political system the right guy for the job no longer stands a chance.

[Sikboy]

I don't think that Lazs is saying that only the GOP is doing anything, simply that he prefers the GOP to the Democrats. To that end, he chooses not to support a potential 3rd party candidate that will syphon votes away from his party of choice (whether he likes the 2 party system or not, he recognizes that the winner of this election will be either a democrat or a republican).

He's not saying that a vote for Hillary or Obama would be done just to prove a point, but rather that voting for Ron Paul on a Libertarian ticket (assuming he looses the GOP nomination), would be tantimount to helping Hillary or Obama win the election. (see the Y2K voters for Nader).

This is what we've got, and unless and until we change our electoral system we're stuck with it. I'd like to yield the floor to +Dead to explain why proportionate voting systems lead to sub-optimal outcomes, but I don't think he'll take the bait.

Ayhow, as BSD points out, Ron Paul is running as a Republican, so if you like the fellah, throw your support behind him in the primaries, and lets see how far we can push this thing. It's a good election for an outsider; as good as any in recent history. Both sides look to have contentious primaries, with no clear frontrunner. Hopefully the political bloodbath will rage on both sides all the way throught he Primaries.  

-Sik

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by Sikboy
Ayhow, as BSD points out, Ron Paul is running as a Republican, so if you like the fellah, throw your support behind him in the primaries, and lets see how far we can push this thing. It's a good election for an outsider; as good as any in recent history. Both sides look to have contentious primaries, with no clear frontrunner. Hopefully the political bloodbath will rage on both sides all the way throught he Primaries.

absolutely!  For those love liberty, yet would never consider voting for a third party candidate because they're afraid of the Dem winning, there is absolutely zero downside to throwing your full support behind Ron Paul.  If he loses the primary ya'll can still vote for the Republican in the general election.  

Also, even though I've said it before I'll say it again...  If RP wins the GOP nomination the GOP will be able to count on the libertarian/independant swing vote working in their favor, instead of working against them.  That very well could be the deciding factor in '08, as it was in '06.

[bsdaddict]

btw...  I spent the last couple of days working on my myspace profile.  It's all Ron Paul so I thought I'd share it here.  check it out and lemme know what you think.  http://www.myspace.com/38234790

[lazs2]

Yep.. sick gets it.  

bsd..  I realize that rp is running as a republican.  As I have said....I will vote for him in the primaries.   He will of course lose but..  A lot of votes for him might help change the direction of the republicans and slow their slide toward big government and socialism.

No matter what tho...  any republican in the house of senate or white house is better than any demoncrat..   for governor..  maybe not so much.

When they get to vote on laws that affect the whole country... you can't allow democrats to be in power.. they will vote along party lines and party lines are socialist nanny state for them.

The reason rp is a republican is because libertarians have a lot more in common with republicans than with democrats.   Show me a libertarian disguised as a democrat.

lazs

[bsdaddict]

Congressman Ron Paul will be a guest on "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" tonight at 11:00 pm ET.

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/index.jhtml

The third GOP presidential debate will be held tomorrow night at 7:00 pm ET in New Hampshire. CNN will broadcast the debate with Wolf Blitzer as the moderator.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

[Sikboy]

I went to a Ron Paul meetup in Dallas last night. I think the biggest problem Congressman Paul is going to have are his biggest supporters. The quicker he can start to move his base away from the fringes the better his chances. Last night we had people from the Green party to former neo-cons, to borderline anarchists. I believe I was the only one there with Experience on Capitol Hill, and the only Poli-sci degree in the room...

Oi, we've got a long way to go and less than a year to get there.

-Sik

[rodeo]

I heard that SIKBOY - his biggest supports are his down fall.

Come On Fred Thompson

[lazs2]

Yep..  panning out into the crowd of all those sensible pot heads is not gonna go over that well in the heartlands..

lazs