The Ten Manliest Firearms

[VWE]

Real men cannot be bothered to siple wurds curreckly.

I see the HiTech brainwashing is working...

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I deal in first-hand accounts and FACTS.   A webpage is just that, SOMEONE'S OPINION.

2 Marines, 3 army soldiers and 1 sailor, all who served in Vietnam, all back what I've said.



But now that I've said that, you're not going to be satisfied unless I get those 6 people to register and post in this thread.

[mentalguy]

ladies and gentlemen, meet Laser's 6 shade accounts.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by mentalguy
ladies and gentlemen, meet Laser's 6 shade accounts.

 

[Toad]

You'll know just how find and dandy the .223 is when the next battle rifle comes out. If they switch to the 6.8mm Rem that will pretty much end the argument.

[lazs2]

I would not have a 223 if I could get a bigger caliber in a more accurate rifle.

I am not the best rifle shot but if I take my time I can hit out to some pretty good ranges...  I have shot battle rifles against the assault carbines and I don't like the way the carbines perform at range.   I also like to be able to shoot through a wall or a tree.... to stop an unarmored vehicle..

If all I wanted was to get a lot of lead into the air or never shot over a couple hundred yards and a stop/kill was not important and my enemy never wore body armor... I would go with the low powered carbine round.

For any kind of a fight I might get into I would go with a pistol/revolver (defensive) and an accurate high powered rifle (offensive).   Let eveyone else burn ammo on full auto.

lazs

[Rino]

Originally posted by lazs2
I would not have a 223 if I could get a bigger caliber in a more accurate rifle.

I am not the best rifle shot but if I take my time I can hit out to some pretty good ranges...  I have shot battle rifles against the assault carbines and I don't like the way the carbines perform at range.   I also like to be able to shoot through a wall or a tree.... to stop an unarmored vehicle..

If all I wanted was to get a lot of lead into the air or never shot over a couple hundred yards and a stop/kill was not important and my enemy never wore body armor... I would go with the low powered carbine round.

For any kind of a fight I might get into I would go with a pistol/revolver (defensive) and an accurate high powered rifle (offensive).   Let eveyone else burn ammo on full auto.

lazs

     I thought the entire point of going to rapid fire short ranged military
weapons was because you generally don't see your target  but want to
suppress them using volume of fire?

     In other words, you don't have the luxury of time to acquire targets.
I have no dog in the caliber hunt one way or the other.  The current and
future nature of small arms targets may determine whether or not a
heavier caliber is needed though.

     I think the developing "smart" rounds could have a major impact on
round size too.  Tough to get an effective explosive round in a 5.56.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Rino
I thought the entire point of going to rapid fire short ranged military
weapons was because you generally don't see your target  but want to
suppress them using volume of fire?

     In other words, you don't have the luxury of time to acquire targets.
I have no dog in the caliber hunt one way or the other.  The current and
future nature of small arms targets may determine whether or not a
heavier caliber is needed though.

     I think the developing "smart" rounds could have a major impact on
round size too.  Tough to get an effective explosive round in a 5.56.

I think the real problem came when they started to shy away from specialized infantry weapons (I.E. Issuing m1c, tommy gun, BAR, Garand, and then LMG and MMG's) in favor of issuing everyone an all around average gun that could perform averagely in all tasks.

[john9001]

saw this gun on the TV.  6.8mm
http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifle_468.aspx

[Halo]

(quote) I think the real problem came when they started to shy away from specialized infantry weapons (I.E. Issuing m1c, tommy gun, BAR, Garand, and then LMG and MMG's) in favor of issuing everyone an all around average gun that could perform averagely in all tasks. (unquote)

In addition to the average troop having more rounds and higher rate of fire, within many units isn't there still a variety of weapons and calibers, e.g., 5.56mm, 7.62mm, and 50-cal.?

[lasersailor184]

Perhaps.  But the troops were issued the M16 with the belief that it would take the place of the thompson AND the M14 (Garand) AND the M1carbine AND the BAR AND (partly) the M1917...  You can make the perfect gun, but it would still have trouble covering all of those roles.

[Yeager]

I would much rather shoot an enemy human with a .30 caliber round than a .22 caliber round.  I remember reading in "Black Hawk Down" how one of the Delta guys had a modified M14 and any bad guy he hit with the 308 round stopped fighting immediately.   Apparently many of the militants continued fighting after being hit by 5.56 rounds for several minutes, some not even aware of being hit until they bled out.  I guess the round is just so damned fast that the ballistic shock value has a hard time keeping up with the round.

[storch]

I have shot hogs with both.  .30 is better than .223 but with good placement .223 does the job.

[Xargos]

Yeager, remember snipers don't generally spray and waste ammo like the common foot soldier.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Yeager
I would much rather shoot an enemy human with a .30 caliber round than a .22 caliber round.  I remember reading in "Black Hawk Down" how one of the Delta guys had a modified M14 and any bad guy he hit with the 308 round stopped fighting immediately.   Apparently many of the militants continued fighting after being hit by 5.56 rounds for several minutes, some not even aware of being hit until they bled out.  I guess the round is just so damned fast that the ballistic shock value has a hard time keeping up with the round.

If I remember correctly, that had to do with other factors.  First being that the somalis were coked up just to the point where they can still barely function.  Add onto that the fact that the M4's being used couldn't propel the bullet fast enough to fracture open impact.  The bullets (to fracture) need to be moving at a certain speed.  

Because the barrel is shorter, the bullet dropped past this point at about 50 yards, effectively making the bullet a really fast .22 .


Those two factors did not bode well with anyone wielding an M4 (during the mogadishu battle).