Author Topic: The Second Amendment (Read 4176 times)

mietla · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:56:46 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
But I acknowledge that there are special interest groups that have and will attempt to subvert the true constitutional meaning of the 2nd amendment. I don't think that they do this through ignorance, so it's probably not fair to characterize them as flat earth people.

They're more in the line of dictators.

I think that the flat earth analogy is extremely fitting. Church officials knew very well that the earth is round. As a matter of fact this was a known fact for centuries before.

It was just that the facts did not mesh well with church's teachings and hold on power. The pope (and church in general) was not ignorant, he was simply nipping a challenge to his power in a bud.

Just like today's gun grabbers. The "second amendment = collective right" principle is crucial to them. They can't tolerate any cracks in their dam. If they do, it is only a matter of time until it falls.

midnight Target · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:59:06 AM »

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Originally posted by Chairboy
MT, please answer the question posed above: Which of the other 9 bills of right don't apply to the individual?

None of them.

Unfortunately there is only one of the 10 that was written with a justification clause. The 2nd.

Understand this, I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion that we have an individual right to bear arms. I strongly disagree with the conclusion that only idiots and cretins will find the 2nd to be ambiguous on the issue.

Now what about my question... Can an individual own a SCUD missle? A stinger? A Nuke?

BiGBMAW · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:01:10 AM »

Hornet33 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:05:52 AM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
So the Supreme Court is a bunch of dictators then or are they "flat earthers"? And 1983 was the "jim crow" era?

LOL

Do you think a citizen should have the right to own a nuclear device?

A nuke isn't a gun now is it??? Try and keep things in perspective here. The point is, the 2nd Ammendment as with ALL the ammendments in the Bill of Rights are individual rights. The folks out there that want to take that right away from the public are the same folks that will take away your right to speak out against the government. Once a society is disarmed what defense does that society have against the very government that disarmed them?? None. That is what the 2nd ammendment is all about. Providing the people the ability to protect themselves from anyone trying to take away any of their rights.

I'm glad I live in a state that understands that fact and is a "will issue" state. Took me all of 30 minutes at the court house and $50 and then a wait of about 12 days and I got my CCP that is good for 5 years. I carry on a regular basis. Not because I need to, but because it's my right as a individual to carry. Virginia has even gone as far as allowing CCP holders to carry on school property as long as they don't take a weapon inside a building.

There is one over riding train of thought though that many people will agree with. When the government bans the right of an individual to own a firearm, they will turn millions of law abiding citizens into criminals overnight, because many of those gun owners will not give up their weapons and will fight to keep them. I know I'm one of those people. Also the thought behind that isn't about "I want my guns and you can't take them from me" it about the responsiblity I have as a citizen to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States. Any law that bans a persons right to own a gun is unconstitutional and as a free thinking individual I have the responsibility to fight against such a thing because it wont end with just guns.

Toad · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:06:44 AM »

Wait... you're saying the 1st is not an individual right?

midnight Target · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:29:43 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Wait... you're saying the 1st is not an individual right?

No I'm saying it is.

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Originally posted by Hornet33 A nuke isn't a gun now is it???

The 2nd doesn't say you have the right o bear "guns" it says "arms".

Maverick · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:31:09 AM »

No Toad, he wouldn't say that because he LIKES the 1'st, he just doesn't want the rest of the population to have all of their rights because he's afraid of them.

midnight Target · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:37:28 AM »

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Originally posted by Maverick
No Toad, he wouldn't say that because he LIKES the 1'st, he just doesn't want the rest of the population to have all of their rights because he's afraid of them.

Do you often post without reading or do you think that was funny?

Toad · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:52:54 AM »

Ah, so the Bill of Rights is a list of individual rights.... except for the 2nd.

Now, about those founder's remarks that indicate that they thought the right to bear arms was not an individual right? There are many that state the opposite; can you steer me to some that support your position?

What do you think of Miller being decided with only the government's side being heard? Something you think of as proper there?

Maverick · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:02:21 PM »

I believe my post was addressed to Toad.

I did read previous posts but the one just above mine wasn't there when I typed my first reply out.

I don't joke very much at all when it comes to constitutional rights.

I am extrememly leery of anyone who wants to limit the constitution. I do not trust their motives or interpetation of why they want to modify it. I am extremely distrustfull about anyone who wants to limit rights or grant the govt. more latitude in intruding into citizen rights.

midnight Target · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:02:38 PM »

Why do you keep ignoring my question?

Toad · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:08:44 PM »

Because you are ignoring mine?

Maverick · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:12:49 PM »

I gave your "question" more attention than it deserved already.

midnight Target · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:42:19 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Which of of the other first 10 amendments is not an individual right?

What writings of the founders have you found that indicate the 2nd is not an indidvidual right?

Which of the early state constitutions do not make the right to bear arms and individual right?

Do you see any flaws in the way US v Miller was heard and decided?

None, as stated before.

Why is this relevant?

Why is this relevant?

Sure, it was one sided... that still doesn't change my point.

None of what you ask has anything to do with my point. There are plenty of well meaning and generally intelligent people out there who think the justification clause of the 2nd is significant.

So what does the strict individual right to "bear arms" really mean? Can I have a Nuke? Of course not, so my right to bear arms is already limited. So all we really have to go on here is the extent to which the government can limit that right.

john9001 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2007, 01:06:29 PM »

the supreme court is not always right, see dread scott decision.

and MT how are you going to acquire a "nuke", you going to build it? maybe you will buy it? how many millions do you have? who will sell it to you? how will you transport it? where will you keep it? do you have a delivery system?

so many questions, so few answers.