Author Topic: G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread  (Read 11140 times)

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #210 on: March 29, 2007, 02:32:28 PM »
Hrm.. some griefers just can't wait for their PNG, I see.

Please, by all means act childish and throw insults because you have a petty moment.

Offline Ball

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1827
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #211 on: March 29, 2007, 02:34:54 PM »
What do you read? "The Big Book of Aeroplanes"?

You said this only a couple of months ago

Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I had read the 130-ish number as well, but I had read that, similar to the C205, more were made than saw combat. The logistics in Italy were atrocious, often when C205s were shipped out, only 1 would go to a squadron, and some would get none. I read the G.55 was even worse because it was right before the armistice that it was introduced, and after the armistice the production lines were .... inefficient, to say the least.

EDIT: don't get me wrong, I'd fly it often if we had it in-game. 3x MG151/20s and 2x 13mms!!

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #212 on: March 29, 2007, 02:38:32 PM »
Yes, I did Ball. And it seems fairly correct. The G.55 situation was worse than the C.205, and less did see combat than the C.205.  Production slowed terribly, but it kept up. Those were the two "late" war aircraft, even though production was hard for both of them.

(*shrug*) not sure why you quoted it, it's already been said.

P.S. I said "I've read that 130 number as well" -- but have read a lot of numbers, 130 being the lowest, 200 being the highest. Sources vary on that subject.

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #213 on: March 29, 2007, 02:38:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Hrm.. some griefers just can't wait for their PNG, I see.

Please, by all means act childish and throw insults because you have a petty moment.


Throw insults?  It seems to me that you were the one that started with the ignorance comment.  Since then, you have been proven wrong on many if not most occasions on this discussion and that you talk out both sides of your mouth with completely opposite statements.

You want me to lay off, then admit you are wrong.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #214 on: March 29, 2007, 02:39:19 PM »
Can we get a forum admin in here, please? I have been civil and forgiving, but this is insane.

Offline Ball

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1827
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #215 on: March 29, 2007, 02:39:43 PM »
But it contradicts you saying that it had plenty in service?

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #216 on: March 29, 2007, 02:41:46 PM »
I don't think it does, Ball. It was considered the main front line aircraft after '43 and into '44. I kinda think that means "plenty" --- yes yes this can be read many ways. "Plenty" is subjective.

Read into it what you will.

Offline Ball

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1827
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #217 on: March 29, 2007, 03:03:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Can we get a forum admin in here, please? I have been civil and forgiving, but this is insane.


Krusty, from what i see all that is happening is argument and counter argument.  No good whining for an admin when someone follows up one of your statements and you are the one to claim they are "sabotaging" and "griefing".

I think i am going to get out of this thread.  It is going in circles with people not bothering to read the facts.



and sorry gian, i know you desperately want this plane :(

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #218 on: March 29, 2007, 04:43:16 PM »
I hope this thread won't go any lower than it did....

Anyway....

In my opinion, number of aircraft produced, of aircraft that were delivered, of units mounted on the plane should have little importance in deciding what plane to add to MA... the bulk of the game still rotates around MAs, i.e. an a-historical environment.

So, once demonstrated that a plane actually served during the War, having an effective role for its nation, I think that the discussion about it had to be put on the technical ground, not the historic one.

From this point of view, the Centauro is a plane that can be voted for MAs, right now, without further waiting.

Don't worry, Furby, it has little chances anyway. ;)

P.S. Lol, I think I had to post this on Bodhi's thread and what I posted there, here... oh well... too many threads with the same actors! :D
Live to fly, fly to live!

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #219 on: March 29, 2007, 05:07:37 PM »
What counter-point, ball? What counter-point was being made, amidst the calling of names?

Re-read my posts in this entire, long, thread. You can see that they are not concrete. They change as new little bits of info are produced. What, aside from an argument on whether this plane is worthy of being in AH, is he saying? He has not said "no, that engine was wrong" nor has he said "oh, no, it didn't have those guns, the wing was smaller, it flew worse at altitude" -- he has not provided any points to "counter" with -- just griping. The majority of this thread has been constructive, a gathering of information. What does Bodhi do? He posts "bashing" threads (destructive) spreading misconceptions for 2 planes he doesn't want to see in-game.

I honestly don't care what he votes. I never said I cared. He simply hasn't provided a single "point" this entire time, and on top of it craps a brick when I don't "agree" with him.

Now, this may sound harsh, and perhaps it is a little (I'm looking at it making sure it won't offend much before I hit SUBMIT). However, he has supplied this forum with nothing but bashing since the vote came up. He hasn't taken a stand on what he likes. He's just started trashing other peoples' contributions.

I would be perfectly content if he'd have quoted 5 books saying when and where the G.55 was used, give us an insight to the pilots flying it, and so on and so forth. Instead, we get this.

Sorry if that's how it is, and I didn't want that for this thread.

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #220 on: March 29, 2007, 05:59:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
"Had the G55 been adopted its very very possible the US would have had to abandon daylight bombing in 1943....."

I think your mistaking something for an Me 262, which is the only a/c that could have had the effect you are implying.

The G55 was a fine fighter, 1st class, one of many that both sides flew, lets not get carried away into fanboi-fantasy-camp over it.

...and the Fw190 was the premier bomber killer for the LW in 1943/44, and was even more heavily armed than a G55 was. Calling it a "pre war design" is beyond cherry picking your data. You can hardly compare the Fw190 prototype to what was flying in 1943.

I will leave it at that, since this isnt the thread for it.


I dont ever get "fanboi" about anything....The 190A3-4 was the frontline counterpart to the G.55. The 190 was a much better plane then the 109 overall IMO. However the 190 "morphed" and the A8 was significantly less effective then the A4 (best 190A series IMO). The 190 was never effectivr at higher altitudes. The G.55 was designed specifically as a true interceptor. It had the range & ceiling as well as the firepower. Both the 190 and the 109 suffered when "upgunned"...

In 2/43 the G.55 was as good as it got from an axis perspective (for a bomber interceptor). If you consider that the G.55/II did actually fly in 1944 its very possible that a 5 x 20mm option would have seen service in 1944 as well. This was a production plane ready to go that was specifically designed as a high altitude bomber interceptor. Something that neither the 190A4 or 109G6 could do effectively in 4/43....not 8/44 when it was a bit to late to matter.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #221 on: March 29, 2007, 06:28:40 PM »
Krusty provide a point where I bashed another aircraft.  

You opened with your very first reply with personal attack in a thread I started.  Notice I did not attack you in any way in this thread until well after you commenced your attacks.

I provided factual statements regarding both aircraft.  The Brewster and the G.55.  Never once did I "spread misconceptions" about any aircraft, where as you said,
Quote
"I just didn't want you spreading misconceptions about the G.55 around, making others think it was a Ta152 when in fact it was a 109G6 (rare v. common).


Can you actually really honestly believe that?  148 delivered aircraft.  Doubts that half of those even saw combat!  

I provide a factual counter argument to your erroneous statement,
Quote
The Ta152 saw about 50 examples produced and delivered... roughly. Thats 33% of the total number of G.55's that were delivered. The 109G6 saw roughly 11000 aircraft produced. It was the most common built 109. The G.55 total production (even counting aircraft not delivered and on assembly line) is 2.7% of the 109G6 production. The Ta152 total represents .4 % of the 109G6 production.
and you ignore it.  The one thing I did miss on that though was that atleast 168 examples of the Ta152 were produced or in final stages of production.  Aircraft number 168 "Green 9" was even captured by the British on an airfield.  

My problem with you is spin.  You have not provided hardly any factual statements regarding the G.55.  Instead you cry like a girl when I finally get nasty back to you.

My bad, I did not know I was dealing with children who can dish it out, but can not take it.

Gianlupo atleast has taken the time to study the G.55, and I very much respect his opinion on it as it is well informed and he is very respectful about it.  

Mark my words Krusty.  I am not going to pick at you anymore.  I will however correct your mistaken facts on EVERY single post I come across from now on.  You want to play games and spin, well, I will play a better game, and prove just how wrong you are on almost every subject you post about.

Have a nice evening  
:)
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #222 on: March 29, 2007, 08:18:49 PM »
So, by me saying it's ignorant that you claim the G.55 was all but absent in the war, that's an attack... Hrm..

Let me look this up in the dictionary... goes something like

Ignorant: Lacking knowledge.

You made a sweeping judgment on an aircraft you apparently knew nothing about, despite a long thread supplying the entire forum-going population with info.

That's not a personal attack, and FYI almost every post you have made on the matter has hinted at or included explicit attacks. Would you rather I used "your *****rdly knowledge" [EDIT: Won't let me type it, the word that senator got in trouble for using, similar to N-word] or "your lack of comprehension" or "your lack of information?" All of them simply imply you didn't have the info needed to say what you did.

"Can you actually really honestly believe that? 148 delivered aircraft. Doubts that half of those even saw combat!" Almost all of them, considering they served for over a year and a half without much of a production line to recoup losses. Served until late 1944 as the main front line fighter of Italy.


"I provide a factual counter argument to your erroneous statement,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Ta152 saw about 50 examples produced and delivered... roughly. Thats 33% of the total number of G.55's that were delivered. The 109G6 saw roughly 11000 aircraft produced. It was the most common built 109. The G.55 total production (even counting aircraft not delivered and on assembly line) is 2.7% of the 109G6 production. The Ta152 total represents .4 % of the 109G6 production.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

You provide... random numbers? (forgive me, let me explain)

 I didn't reply, because you didn't make a point. You're comparing the G.55 to the 109G6 and then comparing THAT to the Ta152 as compared to the 109G6. It's like comparing a japanese zero to a P-47. Both nations had different production capabilities. Compare the Ta152 to the 109G-6. Then compare the G.55 to the C.202. Splitting the difference on the reported numbers (from 130 to 200) say there were 150 G.55s, compared to 1500 C.202s. That's 10%. If you consider that the C202s were phased out after the armistice, and only C205s and G.55s continued, the 205s made up 250 and the G.55s used (split the difference) 150. That's 37% of the entire front line force after 1943. I only tossed in that "Ta152" reference because the Ta152 was rare. I wasn't making a direct % correlation between the two. Ta152 rare, G.55 not rare. That was my point, and it had nothing to do with total numbers, but the numbers help the G.55 when you add them up.


"My problem with you is spin. You have not provided hardly any factual statements regarding the G.55."

Every statement I've made has been fairly accurate. It seems the wing guns had 200 instead of 250. I thought only the prototype had 4 12.7mm guns, but apparently the entire Serie 0 had them. Other than that I've made no huge, boastful claims.

Re-read this thread. I've not said anything that wasn't pretty close to all the resources we've shown in this thread. Funny how when I supply you information you sh** on me, but when Gianlupo supplies you the same information you're nice. Rather hypocritical, though, if you ask me. I don't care, honestly, except you keep twisting the facts in the process. You keep saying I'm spinning the facts, keep saying you've given me counter-points, keep saying that I'm wrong wrong wrong. So re-read the thread and see what I've typed. Please point out why you've got a bee in your bonette, show me a thread where I've posted something wrong or false. We'll put this to bed once and for all.

Offline kil0

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #223 on: March 30, 2007, 03:35:08 AM »
yak3 vote for it

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
G.55 Centauro Lobbying Thread
« Reply #224 on: March 30, 2007, 11:17:36 AM »
I'd like to thank everyone who supported this plane. It was a nice dream... too short, but so nice.

I'm gonna support the Yak 3, now, it seems it's the best furballer we can have.

Wait... better to have another furballer or more targets?? Go, B 25, go! :D
Live to fly, fly to live!