The Armed Citizen

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

It doesn't matter what gun you use, they'll take it. It is evidence, because either you or the person you shot committed a crime, maybe both. A rifle of any sort is a poor choice for home defense, they're too long and they overpenetrate. If it's all you have, it's all you have. You MIGHT, eventually get it back. But do not count on it.

[Toad]

The FMJ's aren't necessarily armor piercing but they will whistle right through a human at short range in most cases. OTOH, they are handy if your assailant is wearing body armor.

If you want something that won't penetrate as much, look at the Wolf 7.62x39 122gr Hollow Points.  They make a big hole but they don't keep going and going and going like the Energizer bunny.

Which top 10 was that? Here's the list from 2003:

1. Diseases of heart  685,089

2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer) 556,902

3. Cerebrovascular diseases  157,689

4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases  126,382

5. Unintentional injuries  109,277

6. Diabetes mellitus  74,219

7. Influenza and pneumonia  65,163

8. Alzheimer's disease  63,457

9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis  42,453

10. Septicemia  34,069

[Yeager]

Imagine....if heart disease were outlawed, only outlaws would have heart disease.

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by Yeager
what are the other nine leading causes of death in the United States dynamite?

Lets have a full bodied discussion on all ten leading causes of death so that we might develop a better understanding of the problems affecting Amercians.

From what i found during a quick search...

1     Diseases of heart (I00-I09, I11, I13, I20-I51)     725,192     265.9
2     Malignant neoplasms, including neoplasms of lymphatic and hematopoietic tissues (C00-C97)     549,838     201.6
3     Cerebrovascular diseases (I60-I69)     167,366     61.4
4     Chronic lower respiratory diseases (J40-J47)     124,181     45.5
5     Accidents (unintentional injuries) (V01-X59, Y85-Y86)     89,703     34.1
6     Diabetes mellitus (E10-E14)     68,399     25.1
7     Influenza and pneumonia (J10-J18)     63,730     23.4
8     Alzheimer's disease (G30)     44,536     16.3
9     Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (N00-N07, N17-N19, N25-N27)     35,525     13.0

Now... if comparing them to this list... well there are a lot of things in the world of health and medicine that we need to be wary of...

But if you ask me, the more interesting statistic is the number of legal/"clean kills" vs the number of accidental shootings, homicides, and suicides. That would be 554 (i'm throwing in the "undetermined" as legal kills just to make you happy) vs 29,046 deaths... or a whopping 1.9% of all gun deaths in the US were "justified"

Way to go guys!!!





Now... let me say this.   I'm a liberal...it's pretty obvious I know.  But surprisingly enough... even with those horrific stats above... I DON'T WANT YOUR GUNS!  Keep them!  They're your right.  Enjoy!  I only responded because while I'm happy for the few examples listed by Dago who had positive outcomes, I just wanted to point out that the vast majority don't have positive outcomes.  Just offering a little perspective.

[quintv]

Why include suicides?

The "clean kills" don't take into account the incidences  where the intruder/assailant wasn't killed or injured at all by  the way.

[Masherbrum]

Stats in Criminal Justice are skewered to benefit either side of the room.   I ignore em.

[Yeager]

how many crimes were prevented last year by law abiding people using firearms?  dynamite, can you find that stat?  I would greatly appreciate you posting that statistic.

Thanks, man.

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by quintv
Why include suicides?

The "clean kills" don't take into account the incidences  where the intruder/assailant wasn't killed or injured at all by  the way.

You're right... I was just comparing gun deaths and not including deterred assaults/ B&E's.   But I leave it up to the pro gun folks to provide that statistic.

I included Suicides because while someone earlier said something like "they'd just jump of buildings" or something to that effect... its not necessarily true.  Women actually have more suicide attempts then men, but the successful suicide rate is nearly 5x greater for men than women.  Thats because men use means of higher lethality, ie guns.

I work in mental health... and quite frankly, anything that will lower the risk of a successful suicide is pretty sweet in my book.   I guess I've seen to many families torn apart by this.

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by Yeager
how many crimes were prevented last year by law abiding people using firearms?  dynamite, can you find that stat?  I would greatly appreciate you posting that statistic.

Thanks, man.

I just looked for a few minutes... but I got really conflicting numbers so I'm not too sure.   Obviously, the folks who aren't big fans of guns don't tend to publish that statistic...

But the few pro gun websites I came across had differing numbers, and neither said where they got their data from.  One said that 1million crimes are prevented annually, the other said 2.5million crimes are prevented annually thats kind of a bid difference.  I don't know where they're getting their numbers from though.  I'll check out the CDC and the GAO and see if I can find anything bud.

[tedrbr]

  quote:In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S.

No where NEAR the top ten.

43,443 people died in auto accidents in 2005.
42,884 people died in auto accidents in 2003 to add to the top ten list above.
42,196 people died in 2001, the year of the quoted stat.

Throw out big numbers and make unsubstantiated, or down right wrong, claims.  Modern information, political, and statistical tactics are fun.  Anyone can play!

"Guns don't kill people!  Cars kill people!"   "Save a life! Shoot up a Car!"

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by tedrbr
No where NEAR the top ten.

43,443 people died in auto accidents in 2005.
42,884 people died in auto accidents in 2003 to add to the top ten list above.
42,196 people died in 2001, the year of the quoted stat.

Throw out big numbers and make unsubstantiated, or down right wrong, claims.  Modern information, political, and statistical tactics are fun.  Anyone can play!

"Guns don't kill people!  Cars kill people!"   "Save a life! Shoot up a Car!"

Well, tell that to the University of Utah School of Medicine... that's where I got my information from

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Well, tell that to the University of Utah School of Medicine... that's where I got my information from

The irony..... Latest statistics actually show that 225,000 people die every year due to some form of medical malpractice.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by VooWho
What kind of gun did you use? Your bullets went threw the person, and threw the house? I used my SKS officer. Sir please turn around and put your hands behind your back! Would they take my SKS? I don't think they would.

 

Have you kicked around getting a shotgun or pistol for home defense? Using a rifle in a populated area could get get you in trouble for obvious reasons. I had to use my AR-15 to defend myself and my father once. I found myself trying to position myself to where if I had to shoot the bastard, my round wouldnt go through him and in to my neighbors house. At the same time I was trying to get between him and my dad. It was something I really didnt want to have to fool with at that point in time. Lesson learned I keep my Winchester Defender ready to go instead of grabbing the first long gun I see in the cabinet.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Yeager
Imagine....if heart disease were outlawed, only outlaws would have heart disease.

  I always get a crack out of those commercials saying that the number one killer of americans is heart disease.  NO **** SHERLOCK.  Pretty much everything is ****ed if your heart is sick.

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
The irony..... Latest statistics actually show that 225,000 people die every year due to some form of medical malpractice.

That is pretty damn funny