High School 1973 vs 2006

[BTW]

Originally posted by Kuhn
I have 3 kids that went to the same schools. The oldest could get good grades if he wanted to. He decided not to go and became a delinquent until he was 19 and responsilble for his own actions. The middle child followed in his older brothers footsteps. He's 18 and comming home in a month or two after he finishes serving his time in a juvie center. He's been there for a year. My youngest is 13 and doing well in school. She gets very good grades and is a model student. Does the after school stuff, volunteers at the hospital etc. Now I understand  the school and teachers had problems with the older boys, they blew it for themselves. But this sweet girl is having problems with teachers that her brothers had in the past. They seem to forget her track record when what I feel is a minor incident gets blown out of proportion. A few times now I have had to go to the school and remind the teachers that this is a good kid they are complaining about. Some of the things like staying inside when the rest of the kids are outside for recess should be handeled by the school. I don't need a phone call for that.

I do think many teachers are just doing the daily grind and don't want to help the kids. They just want to do their job and get the summer off. It makes me appreciate the ones that actually want to teach and are proud when a kid learns from them. Those are the people I enjoy to see at conferences and like to meet around town. They seem to be happy with their lives. OK gettting to long winded. DONE

If I had two kids in trouble with the law I wouldn't be bragging on an internet board. One can be something weird. Two sends up a big red flag of poor parenting. Sorry if that's offensive. It sounds like your youngest is on track for problems also. "Its the teacher's fault." I really hope you're a troll and not a parent.

[lazs2]

btw... while teachers have an almost endless list of people to blame for their failure to teach...

Have you ever heard any teacher ever say that they had any part at all in the failure of anyone to learn?

It is never their fault...even tho they are the ones that have the kid for most of his waking hours..  They are the ones who decide what and how to teach and yet... it is not their fault.

When private schools do better they blame it on them getting the best students... when private schools take the worst students and improve their learning... they blame lack of money and parents...  

I think even the most naive among us are starting to see that the self anointed saints teaching in public schools are every bit as bad as their results.

lazs

[VooWho]

Originally posted by nirvana
Sounds like you live in a rough neighborhood or something Voodoo, we have strict rules at my school but the "security" says they can memorize faces so we don't have to wear ID cards.  The drug dog is rarely ever used at school, at least I haven't seen it very much and it has never been used to search kids specifically to my knowledge.  It's pretty much known who does drugs and they really don't care.

The fighting though is true, however, the instigator is the one that takes the brunt of the punishment but tickets are handed out the second someone takes a swing at another person.  You have to go to court for those too, it's not just paying a fine and going on with life.

Will you see the funny thing is my school is located in the nice middle/rich side of town. The only poor kids are the ones that live in the old homes around the high school. My school isn't violent at all, will I mean there fights but there sissy fights. The guys just jump around slap each other in the faces and then jump around more tell the teachers break it up. The girls though, they get nasty and dirty. Are school is the best public school system in Oklahoma. The only thing bad about my school are druggies, and alcohol. My high school has about 3500 - 4000 students 9th-12th grade. I would say about 70% drink and 60% have tried drugs but 40% do drugs. I know the alcohol level is high at my school but the drug use might be lower than 40%. Its a great school but we have so much rules that are just dumb.

[Elfie]

Vouchers just makes the social-economic gap bigger and does nothing to the actual problem. Rural kids instantly lose because there are no, and will be no private schools built in low population, less affluent areas.

If enough of the parents in a particular rural area were dissatisfied with the public school in the area, they could do something about it if they had the vouchers. Quite possibly just the threat of the parents moving their children some where else just might make the local public school *shape up* so to speak.

[Chalenge]

The voucher system was put into place here in Florida. Schools were graded by performance and if the school got a low grade the kids were given vouchers and could use them for private education. Private schools started to do a much better job at educating the kids. Then a teacher sued (at the behest of the union) and the courts in Florida ruled the voucher system unconstitutional. No more voucher system in Florida.

[lazs2]

nothing as bad as public schools can last forever..  People are wising up and a lot of the myths about vouchers are being dispelled by areas that allow em.

The teachers and their union are like some old mafioso trying his best to hang on to power as the world around him changes.

If nothing else..  vouchers will force public school to perform a little better.   It is win/win.

I could never figure out why "poor people"  you know.. the ones who take money to sit home... why they couldn't homeschool... oh wait.. they can't because they don't know anything themselves because... they went to 12 years of public school and can't even read.

lazs

[BTW]

Originally posted by lazs2
btw... while teachers have an almost endless list of people to blame for their failure to teach...

Have you ever heard any teacher ever say that they had any part at all in the failure of anyone to learn?

It is never their fault...even tho they are the ones that have the kid for most of his waking hours..  They are the ones who decide what and how to teach and yet... it is not their fault.

When private schools do better they blame it on them getting the best students... when private schools take the worst students and improve their learning... they blame lack of money and parents...  

I think even the most naive among us are starting to see that the self anointed saints teaching in public schools are every bit as bad as their results.

lazs

I'll gladly point out teachers' failures in the proper context, but I would never serve it up as an excuse for my child's behavior. That was the point of that post. The poster was lamenting the fact that they had two children in trouble with the law and felt the third was having problems because of a teacher.

Sorry, I'm not getting on that boat. I've seen too many parents explain away their child's behavior as being a poor victim of circumstances.

[Xargos]

http://www.tldm.org/news6/child.discipline.htm

[Mightytboy]

Originally posted by lazs2
btw... while teachers have an almost endless list of people to blame for their failure to teach...

Have you ever heard any teacher ever say that they had any part at all in the failure of anyone to learn?

It is never their fault...even tho they are the ones that have the kid for most of his waking hours..  They are the ones who decide what and how to teach and yet... it is not their fault.

When private schools do better they blame it on them getting the best students... when private schools take the worst students and improve their learning... they blame lack of money and parents...  

I think even the most naive among us are starting to see that the self anointed saints teaching in public schools are every bit as bad as their results.

lazs

I have to disagree!

I work for a School system here in Indiana and I can tell you from my experience that teachers have little to no control of how they teach.

The State comes down with all sorts of stupid rules and Administrators are so afraid of being sued they cave every time a parent threatens them over little Timmy not getting his way.

Teachers are told not to pressure little Timmy to do the same work as everyone else because he's special so the other kids follow suit. Teachers can't throw out trouble makers because once again Admin is afraid so they send the kids back and tell the Teachers to be more tolerant.

Let's not forget all the State mandated testing that has to be done. Most of the year is used to prepare kids for a test instead of what they are in class for.

For the life of me I can't see why anyone would want to be a Teacher. Low pay and you end up being a baby sitter that has no authority.

[lazs2]

btw... if you sent your kid to a swimming school and no one in the class knew how to swim at the end of it and the swim instructor told everyone that it was the parents fault you wouldn't know whether to laugh or get angry...  same for teachers.

Mighty..   the teachers all vote as a block for the people who make the silly democrat rules that they live with..  the teachers love those programs.  I can see why they hate testing tho...  they sure don't want anyone to see what a bad job they are doing... the tests for high school would have been passed by 7th graders 30 or 40 years ago..

as for pay... they are certainly not underpaid in kalifornia... they are the highest paid part time workers in the country..   and hard?   what is hard about spending your life going to school and then never leaving... just switching desks?  never have to face the real world..

lazs

[Maverick]

Originally posted by lazs2
btw... if you sent your kid to a swimming school and no one in the class knew how to swim at the end of it and the swim instructor told everyone that it was the parents fault you wouldn't know whether to laugh or get angry...  same for teachers.

If the swim teacher had students who were not taught how to behave at home or in public, who's parents told the teacher they didn't have to do anything the teacher said, who had the swim school backing up the kids and telling the teacher that they could not make the kids do anything in the water. If the teacher is told by the student that the teacher couldn't do anything to make the student learn and that their parents would sue the teacher for making the student do any work. Then  the teacher is informed by the school that there will be a mandatory assembly every week for half a day. No performance testing is allowed as it may harm the child's self esteem. The curriculum required by the state mandates water depth of 6 inches and a life vest must be worn at all times. Then you'd have a better understanding of what the teacher is going through.

Originally posted by lazs2

Mighty..   the teachers all vote as a block for the people who make the silly democrat rules that they live with..  the teachers love those programs.  I can see why they hate testing tho...  they sure don't want anyone to see what a bad job they are doing... the tests for high school would have been passed by 7th graders 30 or 40 years ago..

[/B]

I was a teacher for a bit and I didn't vote as a block. There never was any pressure or mandate that I vote in any particular manner from the teacher association. They did state the association supported x, y, z cantidate but not one of the association folks ever drove me to the poll or entered the ballot area to tell me how to vote. I was never questioned about how or what I voted for by even other teachers.

Teachers use tests all the time and don't have a problem with them, provided the kids decide they will bother to learn and perform. Mandating teachers performance be based on testing would be like your performance be based on the quality of the pipe supplied to the city where you have no control of the quality, specs, materials, sizes or quantity of pipe to be used in your waste water system. The supplier would be the parents telling you that they supplied pipe and it's up to you to make a complete waste water system, to code, with rusty 1" galvanized pipe and you don't have anything to say about the materials. Don't forget that you must also provide additional materials to be used in the job site out of your own pocket since you will not get thread cutters, gasketing or even PVC glue.

Originally posted by lazs2 as for pay... they are certainly not underpaid in kalifornia... they are the highest paid part time workers in the country..   and hard?   what is hard about spending your life going to school and then never leaving... just switching desks?  never have to face the real world..

lazs

I challenge you to try it. If you have a Bachelors degree you can then apply for a substitute teachers position and work a variety of schools. Find out what it's like for real in today's class room instead of whaqt you remember from when you went to school several decades ago.

[Mightytboy]

Originally posted by lazs2
btw... if you sent your kid to a swimming school and no one in the class knew how to swim at the end of it and the swim instructor told everyone that it was the parents fault you wouldn't know whether to laugh or get angry...  same for teachers.

Mighty..   the teachers all vote as a block for the people who make the silly democrat rules that they live with..  the teachers love those programs.  I can see why they hate testing tho...  they sure don't want anyone to see what a bad job they are doing... the tests for high school would have been passed by 7th graders 30 or 40 years ago..

as for pay... they are certainly not underpaid in kalifornia... they are the highest paid part time workers in the country..   and hard?   what is hard about spending your life going to school and then never leaving... just switching desks?  never have to face the real world..

lazs

Indiana is not California!

People here WANT to teach but they always seem to have their hands tied behind their backs.

No support from Admin and above and no support from the parents.

But when little Timmy can't read when he gets out of school everyone says it's the teachers fault.

Now don't get me wrong there ARE some Teachers that are worthless but for the most part they really care and try hard to give our kids the best education they can.

[Kuhn]

Originally posted by BTW
If I had two kids in trouble with the law I wouldn't be bragging on an internet board. One can be something weird. Two sends up a big red flag of poor parenting. Sorry if that's offensive. It sounds like your youngest is on track for problems also. "Its the teacher's fault." I really hope you're a troll and not a parent.

Bragging? Im sorry if it sounded like that. Bad parenting? Had to many "experts" and "profesionals" tell me otherwise. I never said it was any teachers fault. School just isn't as caring about what happens to the kids anymore. I saw how they try to keep the kids down when any thing minor happens because they are scared it could escalate to larger problems in the future. I remember when I was in school if some one was out of order in class that person would be delt with by the school unless that person was out of control. Nowadays a kid can cause a call to the parents if they are caught chewing gum. Kinda petty if you ask me.

So I don't know what you read into my other post, and I wish it was a troll but sadly it's not. I am a parent with two kids that couldn't think before doing. They both paid for there mistakes. One is on track and the other is working on it. My youngest is no way having any problems like the other two and will not.