gun control...

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The availability of weapons is only deterred by your imagination.

There are items out there that could possibly be far more deadly then a Gun.





September 11th.

Oh yeah, it's much easyer to hijack a plane (alone I might add) than to load up a handgun and go about on a rampage.

If only imagination stops them, why are handguns, assault rifles and shotguns practically always used on murder rampages? Wouldn't it be much cooler to make bombs and big bangs instead of having to tap-tap everyone individually?

No, the gun is there, it's loaded and only waiting for the press of the trigger. So tempting, so shiny and cool. Doesn't that principal already look like a moving target to you?

That's what I thought.

[Hazzer]

A loaded gun makes a nobody a somebody in a split second.I'm glad to live in a country in which I do not feel the need to carry a weapon to feel safe.If gun ownership was legalised today I would definatlely feel less safe,as far as the US is concerned it is not my place to tell them what is good for them that is for the US to decide,and I think Gun ownership will continue for a long time to come.

[moot]

MrRipley, guns are just an object. Before 9/11's planes were hijacked from their pilots, the hijackers didn't use guns, but fear and cardboard cutters.
 Any average amount of brains can devise a way to kill, provided a minimum amount of resources, whether that's with psychology, household chemicals, gunpowder, or gallons of fertilizer, etc.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by moot
MrRipley, guns are just an object. Before 9/11's planes were hijacked from their pilots, the hijackers didn't use guns, but fear and cardboard cutters.
 Any average amount of brains can devise a way to kill, provided a minimum amount of resources, whether that's with psychology, household chemicals, gunpowder, or gallons of fertilizer, etc.

A gun is an object of destruction. It's an opportunity waiting to be taken. Or accident waiting to happen.

How many kids shot themselves with the parents guns, how many people flipped, pressed the trigger and regreted it for the rest of their lives.

It's a bad bad situation if you feel the need to own a gun for anything else than hobby shooting. A situation where I wouldn't want to be - bullets fly both ways too easy.

[DiabloTX]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
A gun is an object of destruction. It's an opportunity waiting to be taken. Or accident waiting to happen.

How many kids shot themselves with the parents guns, how many people flipped, pressed the trigger and regreted it for the rest of their lives.

It's a bad bad situation if you feel the need to own a gun for anything else than hobby shooting. A situation where I wouldn't want to be - bullets fly both ways too easy.

A car is an object of potential destruction. It's an opportunity waiting to be taken. Or accident waiting to happen.

How many kids killed themselves with their parents cars, how many people flipped, pressed the gas pedal and regreted it for the rest of their lives.

It's a bad bad situation if you feel the need to own a car for anything else than hobby driving. A situation where I wouldn't want to be - cars kill both ways too easy


See how easy that was?

[moot]

What Diablo said.

It's a bad bad situation if you feel the need to own a gun for anything else than hobby shooting. A situation where I wouldn't want to be

Says you .. That's a dark side of the moon fallacy.  It's remedied easily enough (don't move to any such place), and doesn't adress the topic at hand: how to effectively solve criminals gun use.

I think that's the best thing this thread can discuss at the moment.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by DiabloTX
A car is an object of potential destruction. It's an opportunity waiting to be taken. Or accident waiting to happen.

How many kids killed themselves with their parents cars, how many people flipped, pressed the gas pedal and regreted it for the rest of their lives.

It's a bad bad situation if you feel the need to own a car for anything else than hobby driving. A situation where I wouldn't want to be - cars kill both ways too easy


See how easy that was?

ROFL! How retarded argument. What other use do you see for a car, except for hurting someone? Now do the same thought on a gun.

See how easy that was?

I drive a car every day - I haven't touched a firearm in 5 years.

[Shuckins]

Easily two-thirds of the gun deaths in the U.S. are drug and gang related.  Charon stated in an earlier post that gun-crime is relatively uncommon in the areas of the U.S. outside of the inner cities.

I don't know much about the gangs of Britain or Europe, but those of our country are becoming ultra-violent.  This is the result of fights over turf and the emergence in recent decades of the "gangsta culture."  

The glorification of this culture by gangsta rap and its fueling by drug money guarantees an unnaturally high homicide rate.  Every feather-headed twit who buys drugs from a member of one of these gangs bears part of the responsibility for the violence that results.

What can be done about such a culture?  Legalizing certain "recreational drugs" might help to dry up its money supply, but such a culture is driven as much by testosterone and image as it is by money.

Ban hate-filled, authority defying "gangsta rap?"  Ain't gonna happen Magee.  Try it and I guarantee you will be able to hear the screams of the civil libertarians from border to border.

Ban guns?  Right.  Punish the 99% of American firearms owners who do NOT break the law because of the depradations of the other 1%?  Sure.  But just TRY to take the gangstas guns.  That ain't gonna happen either.  Ban the manufacture of 9mms and large clips and it would still take three decades to dry up the domestic supply......and would do nothing to stop the gangsta culture from spending its drug profits on weapons illegally imported into the country.

Remember, it's all about image.  They're gonna have them.

[moot]

Education, Shuckins
If those gangsta guns aren't legal, they should be taken. Anything that deflates the pool of illegal guns in those circles will help.

MrRipley, yes, guns do harm.  The reason they are a net positive is because they exchange at least one good for every harm.

[DiabloTX]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
ROFL! How retarded argument. What other use do you see for a car, except for hurting someone? Now do the same thought on a gun.

See how easy that was?

I drive a car every day - I haven't touched a firearm in 5 years.

Nice arguement.  Retarded?  Maybe from someone who's myopic in thier views.  It was a metaphor.  Very simple really.  A car has the same potential to kill as a gun does.  And many more people are killed by irresponsible drivers than irresponsible gun owners.  But then again drunk drivers don't make such big headlines now do they?  

So pick yourself off the ROLF and think about it.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by DiabloTX
Nice arguement.  Retarded?  Maybe from someone who's myopic in thier views.  It was a metaphor.  Very simple really.  A car has the same potential to kill as a gun does.  And many more people are killed by irresponsible drivers than irresponsible gun owners.  But then again drunk drivers don't make such big headlines now do they?  

So pick yourself off the ROLF and think about it.

Au contraire back here drunk drivers do make headlines - we don't have murder rampages so frequent here. 10 years ago there was one, 3 people serial killer who went awol with a stolen assault rifle from the army. Back then recruits on watch duty had access to a rifle and bullets, accessible through breaking a glass window. Since then they've been removed for security hazards.

And what goes for a car having the same potential to kill - that's just plain wrong. When was the last time you saw someone murder 32 people by ramming them over with a car? When was the last time you drove into a building?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Or then again, he might have gone out on a stabbing rampage instead in which case he'd quickly be subdued by the campus security.

The easyer it is to get a weapon (no permits, applications etc.) the more likely an insane person is prone to obtain one in a spur of the moment. Then all it takes is the next flip of the switch..

Spur of the moment? Get your facts right. He bought the 9mm Glock 19 5 WEEKS ago. Virginia has a "one gun a month" law. He planned this for some period of time, there was no spur of the moment rampage here. Not there, and not most of the other shooting rampages. These people plan these rampages, they don't happen on the spur of the moment.

What campus security? Campus security WAS NOT THERE.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Spur of the moment? Get your facts right. He bought the 9mm Glock 19 5 WEEKS ago. Virginia has a "one gun a month" law. He planned this for some period of time, there was no spur of the moment rampage here. Not there, and not most of the other shooting rampages. These people plan these rampages, they don't happen on the spur of the moment.

What campus security? Campus security WAS NOT THERE.

Ever heard of purchase impulse? If you can go and buy one just like that with zero background check, it's possible to just go and purchase a weapon with the sole intent of harming someone. Or contemplating the act.

Then once the gun sits there, it's just a matter of time when it gets pointed on people on a murderous spur. Murder impulse. They say the second and third one are easyer after the first kill.

Even if the campus security wasn't there, how many people he could have stabbed to death before them getting there - or more likely the crowd subduing him manually.

[Toad]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
If you can go and buy one just like that with zero background check,  

You cannot buy from a dealer without filling out a form 4473 and being subjected to a NICS check.

Located at the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia, the NICS Section processes background checks for the FFLs in those states that have declined to serve as POCs for the NICS. The FFLs conducting business in these states will contact the NICS either by telephone, via one of two contracted call centers, or electronically by the NICS E-Check System via the Internet.

When contacting the NICS by telephone, the FFL will provide the prospective After contacting the NICS, via two contracted call centers, either by telephone or electronically by the NICS E-Check System via the Internet, FFLs will provide the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473, which is required by law to be completed and signed by every prospective firearm transferee.

The prospective firearm transferee's descriptive information is required descriptive , the FFL will receive a response that the transfer may proceed or is delayed. This response is typically provided within 30 seconds.

Obviously, the system is not perfect. This pile of pig dung passed the NICS check.

However, it is incorrect to say there is no check. Not everyone passes and I can say that as a person that uses the NICS system on a routine basis.

[lazs2]

eagler said.... "When the day comes when we don't kill each other as animals and we live in peace as brothers, do you think everyone will have a gun or no one will?"

on that day.. if I am still alive..  lots of people will still have guns.. I enjoy shooting and reloading and working on them... if everyone is a hippy... what difference would it make if me an 80 million or so other firearms enthustiasts kept our guns?    

lazs